Remove Inferno Staff from the game

I don’t see how marketting matters but not the dev intent. In fact I’d take what the game design devs say (the ones cole talks to) as a lot more accurate and relevant than the marketting and community team that makes a blogpost about it.

Again, intent and implementation are different. Expeditions was intended to be an extraction gamemode but it ended up just being 1 map with 5 different prefabs with objectives and nothing to extract with, just a score system. I’ll just refer back to my post full of points discrediting that angle that you just replied to but didn’t address any of.

Anyway it’s not unreasonable to begin with for a dev to make a gamemode for a very specific niche of players. Look at Mortis Trials, it’s made for 0% of the playerbase
Jokes aside the 0.1% players are the most dedicated to the game and it’s fine to make content that scales up to pander ot them. A havoc rebalance to put current H20 to roughly where H40 is now, and then balancing H40 properly and changing dynamics for it to be a fun varied experience for top sweat 4 stacks would be a solution that pleases everyone.
The only way it doesn’t please everyone is if someone thinks he MUST do H40 solo pugging, which makes no sense. It’s just a number

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here

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by how the game is balanced, you really don’t need any effort and my win rate in auric is 100%, you can join me if you are in EU

I wonder how this looks to those perpetually aggrieved balance enthusiasts (who want to nerf everything). Why do you want to nerf everything? Is it because someone, using weapon X or ability X, is performing better than you with something else? It’s certainly great that you can play with any build, but how about using your head?
Let’s imagine you’re an average player who’s reached Havoc 40 yes, Havoc where you can play the standard missions with whatever you like. So, you want to play 1-2 rounds of Havoc after work, and a Psy who has recently BALANCE, for example has had its dome nerfed, to put it mildly. What’s your reaction? And then you notice that your Inferno staff has suddenly stopped being so useful. What’s your reaction? Just to remind you, we’re setting aside the fact that anything is possible with any build; we’re considering the average person who simply likes to play with comfortable setups. What should they do?
And a second question: you’re all literally CRYING about Inferno, but what do you have to say about this little one, which you’ve apparently forgotten about?

Have you forgotten what’s going on in Havok at the moment? Let me remind you: we’re retreating from ‘I CAN GET THROUGH WITH MY EYES CLOSED AND A BANANA IN MY HAND’. I’m just an ordinary player, with this endless spam of tramps and other enemies??
Why, for the sake of your mental health, should players who are perfectly happy with the game as it is have to put up with your endless BALANCE CHANGES? Let me remind you: the game is about players versus mobs, not other players. We aren’t given any currency that you can trade to others for real money, which would at least make some sense in terms of toning down the things that allow you to ‘easily’ complete any mission.

You’re asking for balance on everything you think is too strong - okay, fine. Or perhaps you’ll start whining just as effectively as a beaten-up mongrel about the fact that winning a 40 Havoc gives you some bloody purple gear? Might that bring things into balance? Perhaps we should start by improving the quality of life, so that players aren’t dependent on 20+ mods that should be in the game by default? Perhaps it’s worth reminding you that there’s a limit on Melka currency? Or that it still shows the maximum level you’ve reached, rather than the Havoc Host level? And what about the fact that the main problem is a billion little shooters who are simply everywhere, and you need protection against them because their damage is no different from that of a Ripper?
What if let’s imagine this scenario again - you turn off the scoreboard and all the mods, how would you tell that the Psyker is broken? Visually? Or do you really need to see the numbers to get upset? And if you need a scoreboard to get upset I’ve got bad news for you.
Imagine this: I’m playing both a Psyker and a Zealot, and for some reason I’m not keen on close combat; I want to be a SORCERER. And similarly, when I’m on the Zealot and the enemies are dying but I can’t get to them in time, for some reason I don’t start going mad and crying; no, I take stock of who’s on my team and vice versa that’s normal. In most cases, your lobby consists of a classic tank, a mage, a knight and an archer. And I get pleasure from how everyone fulfils their role, rather than from the fact that someone deals more damage or has a broken weapon in their hands. Think about it.

You’re asking for things that, if needed at all, should be requested when the game is running smoothly, the content is decent, and the quality of life is acceptable.
Perhaps we should use our heads and stop begging for ‘balance’ and start just as fervently asking for the game to be sorted out?

P.S
If balance is so important to you, why on earth are you playing this game? Go and play PvP games, or just settle down in Fetchark and bring about your long-awaited BALANCE there.

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Amen.

Why should only the players who are currently happy matter, and not those who are dissatisfied?

Very egocentric post. If H40 and weaponry is rebalanced to actually require high player skill and crutches are gone, average players can still enjoy lower Havoc ranks. Right now, the higher skill players can’t enjoy H40 very much due to it, and they can’t go on higher Havoc ranks to compensate. Rewards could be adjusted to reward at full at lower ranks.

Why not please everyone if possible? Everyone would be happy, EXCEPT for players with big ego who want their number to say H40 and whine when it doesn’t.

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Most delusional thing I’ve read in these threads

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False equivalence/pointing at imagined hypocrisies again? You haven’t changed that much since last year if you’re still doing this. I’m not doing the same thing, I’m not throwing accusations carelessly, I’m not straw-manning, I’m not saying things that are blatantly wrong and when I say someone’s lying then I back up that claim.

You’re right, Auric doesn’t have much teamwork anymore because the game doesn’t necessitate it at that difficulty anymore. It’s like we’ve gone through some extreme powercreep that got us to this point. There used to be a time where damnation and auric were difficulties that strongly incentivized/required teamwork but I guess it’s more convenient to continue the status-quo having Fatshark conform to Havoc’s power level than to accept some nerfs and turn down the difficulty.

I think you’d have to be lacking in imagination or prior experiences to say this. You played Vermintide 2, right? Have you not played Weaves?

Meta loadouts exist because they’re the most effective/optimal amongst existing options.

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These are the people calling us toxic elitists? You actually think that anyone better than “slightly above average” should have to either use gimped loadouts or play duo/solo in order to have fun just so you don’t feel sad about not being able to beat havoc 40. What gameplay experience would you be missing at havoc 20ish in a balanced version of the game Vs h40 right now?

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Do you understand what this does, terror events having no elites tag is not a good thing, in fact this change should be global to auric too.

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Uh huh. We have a proverb in our language.

“Why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but don’t notice the log in your own eye?”

Have you not played Weaves?

The garbage mode that came with one of the worst Vermintide 2 updates ever that was universally hated back then, to the point of almost killing the game at the time?

That is your inspiration and role model to create new stuff upon?

What’s elitist about making the game more accessible to an average quickplay person exactly?

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Why does a game being PvE mean balance changes are bad? Tbh I’ve never heard a good answer to this, can someone enlighten me?

I literally only see objective (mechanical) upsides to balancing the game properly (e.g. fixing bugs caused by difficulty scaling, more diverse set of playstyles), the “downsides” seem to be purely based on human psychology (people don’t like it, people want/deserve to complete high difficulty)

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MFer you have the entire rest of the game to be accessible to the average quickplay person, you do not need the sweatlord difficulty to be that way as well.

The average quickplay person queues for whatever difficulty they want to play, hits quickplay, and is fine.

You do not need to balance all 40 Havoc levels around the average quickplay casual. It’s explicitly meant to be a high-difficulty challenge mode. Let it be that and have some identity.

And part of having to balance it includes balancing player nonsense. So nerf the outliers we’ve got and nerf player power down to the point Havoc 40 is difficult. It’s not that hard to understand.

if the game was balanced it would be accessible to everyone because everyone would have a difficulty level that feels sufficiently difficult, you want the game to be too easy for anyone above average.

dont act stupid like you dont understand this.

and why are you so afraid to answer this question?

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That a yes or a no? And IMO Weaves is still preferable over Havoc because of a couple reasons:

  • You have agency over what rank you want to play, you can choose any unlocked rank whenever you want and no losing ranks either
  • Unique levels and visuals so it doesn’t get stale as fast
  • It’s dead, so it cannot affect the main game’s balance state
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Yeah as little mass appeal as weaves had, it wasn’t universally hated. The few people who it was actually designed in mind with seemed to quite enjoy it. Universally would imply all audiences dislike it. Some features of weaves were in fact so nice, people wanted them to go base game.

There is an argument to be made when it comes to how much effort was put into it vs how much effort such a small niche should get, dev resource wise. I think Havoc is good in the sense here that it’s just re-using the adventure mode systems but with different modifiers and balance. It’s bad in that they let it affect all game balance and have been turning the entire game, all gamemodes, upside down in part because of it. Weaves was the reverse, too much effort for such niche appeal but it then correctly remained niche.

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As recently as 24 hours ago, actually. But you never saw it, so it can’t be helped. You did now though.

It is in fact not an uncommon sentiment and the Darktide devs did openly state they upwards adjust enemies to match the player power level. They don’t HAVE TO, true, it would be better if they didn’t, but then every difficulty becomes unchallenging and boring to regular and/or more experienced players, unless overperforming things get nerfed.

I think this is like the third or fourth time I made this post towards you and I expect it to get ignored just like the first times. It’s a bit frustrating to keep replying to the same points from the same people with the same retort and never having it be acknowledged. This is proving to me that an echo chamber can be in someones mind, if the brain is hermetically sealed in.

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To answer your question:

I want to be able to clear all content in the game with random people without job application stuff or constant searching for a group of good players, I played MMOs which require you to create resumes, prove your ttk, apply to alliances and be active there, and also forced play underplayed roles like healer or tank to fit in with other groups where people lack those things. I’m not interested in having that experience transferred over to Darktide. While I’m not saying it will be 1:1 situation in Darktide, I’m not risking pushing the game in this direction of designing content around 1% where you need premade with voice comms, experience and receipts not to just CLEAR, but have a CHANCE at clearing stuff.

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Accessible in a sense accessible to an average Havoc 40 player.

I’m not saying accessible in a sense accesible to Heresy player, which the majority of playerbase is it seems like.