How about the first chess of the day have dubbel the chans to get a red item?
That would mean the first legend emperor of the day has ~40% drop chance which is honestly kinda high for a supposedly high rarity piece.
Personally I wouldn’t mind if Red double rate was flat out doubled for every chest.
Which in turn would trivialize the value of reds, you´d get about as many of them as the orange ones if that went through, this would kill any joy found in getting good ones.
Current state is good, it has the reds being valuable but not excessively difficult to acquire and if you get a few bad rolls you can use dust to craft one that you really want.
Obviously what ‘too much’ is is a matter of taste, so let’s agree to disagree.
EDIT:
Just to illustrate my point, however: In Monster Hunter World, which is a game which grinding is pretty much the point of, you wouldn’t need more than 150 hours, starting from scratch, to get every piece of top tier gear (decorations are another matter, however).
In V2, I’m assuming that a average skilled player would typically only start getting Red items starting at the 100 hours mark, and the rate of acquiring them is absolutely glacial - about 4 hours per red item I would say, maybe 1 Red item per 2 hours if you’re really fast (20 minutes per game with full books on legend, which doesn’t even guarantee an Emperor Vault that has ~20% drop rate).
And then, even if you DO get that red item, there’s still a very decent chance that it’s an item you already have, since 3 out of the 5 slots are Necklace/Charm/Trinket! That is absolutely ridiculous in my eyes and is a far cry from the rate of farming in actual grinding games (i.e. MHW).
Contract board from VT1 was a very good way of getting a red you wanted. That how I got my Golden Griffon and Ursula in VT1 and it is still a cause of bafflement why the contract board wasn’t put into VT2 when I think about it.
I´ve played MHW too and honestly the decorations part…you understate just how important and insanely RNG it is, or stuff like a specific monster gem/part that has low droprates : P
Here in VT if you get a few bad rolls you can at least roll for the specific one you want, in MHW if you want a perfect roll you can be down grinding for weeks without any results. And even if you get whatever decoration you wanted…you might not just need just one of them.
Beta gear tends to have 2 or 3 decoration slots each and optimization requires you to fill all those with the right things, which you get by farming tempered monsters and elders.
And in iceborne the average elder dragon hunt is about 15-20 minutes with good gear if i am not mistaken, at least for the likes of tempered Namielle and Kirin. Then you are sitting there praying to RNGesus that out of the …hundreds? Of possible decoration drops you will get at least one of the ones that you need.
If you dont get it and instead got a crappy one? Well unlucky, nothing to do but try again and sell the bad one. I myself at some point wanted a part from a silver rathalos and ended up killing him 40 times before i got it.
You were supposed to break his back and got better chances from capturing him during investigations,those did not help much at all i feel.
Meanwhile, indeed, here you can get multiple trinkets that you absolutely do not need, or even duplicates of something you wanted but already got. But at least you can take 5 of those useless pieces of junk and turn them into one good thing with 0 RNG involved.
Honestly had we had this discussion before the red dust system was implemented i would have agreed, but not since then.
I am not sure if this is nostalgia or gaming psychology at its best. But in this form it isn’t true. We had absolutely no influence over what appeared on the Contract Board. It has been as random as opening a chest.
The chance to get “the” red you wanted was way higher with the initial V2 system of getting an Emperor’s Chest since the items in the chest are character specific while for the contract board it could be a red for any character.
The chance to get “any” red may be about equal. We would need to have the correct red drop chance for the chests and the total amount of reds on the contract board over a year.
The chance of “not” getting something you are “not” interested in were way higher with the contract board. And I assume this is where this rumour is coming from since you only got the items you wanted and nothing else (and hence could ignore quests if nothing of interest was there). While for the initial V2 emperor’s chest you got more items you wanted but also a lot of unwanted stuff (and you have to do quests continuously).
Granted, the argumentation only works before the changes to Shillings. Because right now the chances of getting a red by quests is obviously zero.
I would love the return of the contract board and/or some actual events to go in okris book. Maybe some more weekly challenges similar to the contracts e.g. Complete a full book run on Against the Grain on Legend or above for a chest that gives one red item or even one red dust! Theres nothing worse than seeing a constantly empty event tab
Yes! People tend to romanticise the old Q&C board, while it was esentially the same way of distributing items as we have now: Dependant on RNG. You had 0 influence on which item was presented. And (as I’ve said before; I know) RNG is maybe the worst way to distribute items, especially ones that affect gameplay. (Be it weapons or Deeds.)
The old Q&C board could actually work brilliantly now that I think about it, but only if you’d have influence on the reward you’re working towards instead of having to wait for a random one you’d like! If you could select a weapon illusion or red weapon (stats wise) you’d want, and earn it by completing randomized but fun daily / weekly challenges, you’d have a pretty cool system, maybe!
That does sound great, here’s hoping.
When the time comes that you actually need red items, you’ll have some. You can re roll red weapons for dust and get your weapon like that if you want. The only thing i could see that would be usefull is adding a way to convert orange to red dust, but it would have to be a high number, like 30 orange dust for a red dust or something. Still, red items is just a completionist issue and consistency issue on breakpoints, and bp’s are for the most part really not needed on legend. But i agree that it can feel rng and i do have dry streaks myself but i also have streaks where i get 4 reds in 3 chests.
Now with Lhoners emporium they could add red weapons for shillings at a low price, so it’s doable to get a red item with a certain number of daily quests.
Also let me buy a random deed for 5 shillings plox
I know it’s very doable to get all reds (stat-wise), and that they’re not even needed to play on the higgest difficulties. I already have more reds than I’ll ever need. A crafting overhaul would hardly effect me because I basically don’t need to craft anymore. But it’s the principle of the thing. It’s so much more satisfying to work towards a goal, than it is to open chests until you are lucky.
My favorite items are oranges with max rolls – ‘golds’ .
I remember thinking I needed an all red build to survive legend. Now I have nearly every red, but I sometimes play cata with an orange if it has decent rolls on properties I want to try. The difference between 3.8% vs 5.0% speed isn’t going to win or lose the game. I guess I’d suggest re-rolling oranges many times until you get decent rolls.
The drop system is annoying though. Dropping reds is still a pleasure, but I mostly burn them for dust now.
That sounds extremely time-consuming and frankly boring.
I have more then 1000 hours in v2. And i still miss so many red weapons. Friends who play less then me have no chance to get red gear at all for their main character. this way it s super hard and frustrating to play with your friends on cataclysm.
And pls make the drop rates for cataclysm book runs higher than for legend book runs. no one wants to play cataclysm full book runs because of that. it s super hard to find people. if u would increase the red drop rate for cata u would improve two things.
- easier to find people for cataclysm book runs.(which is just more interesting for experienced players then legend full book runs)
- overall better chance to get red items. at least for those players who actually do cataclysm book runs. (which will be way more people if u change this.
Also give some portraits and challenges for beating all cataclysm lvls with all books. somehow people only try to play lvls that give u challenges or portraits. pls also do that for beating weave 160.
Also pls give some red weapons for beating weaves. This way more people will play weaves and also the people who mostly play weaves will at least get a few red weapons so that they can better play the base game with friends or randoms.
This is really the main reason why i stop playing Vermintide 2 for many months because it s hard to find people for higher difficulty content. and it would be super easy to solve with my suggestions.
How the hell you miss any red on 1k hours mark. On that point i had excess red dust and tons of reds just because. Thats simply untrue if you are really at 1k mark
Cata is made for fun challenge not for grind. Legend qp is already bad because ppl go there without any good skill for it. Full books runs on cata is boring as hell. You want destroy something that is done right.
Yes, but what else can you do if you don’t have reds? If it was up to me we’d have the Athanor in regular game mode. For now, I would listen to a podcast while rolling if I needed many items.
And this is sad but this is where we part
Vermintide 2 try to be a mix between a melee focused fps and diablo.
And the diablo part is on the weak side.
It’s not that rng is your main enemy there. It’s that the items properties are not ‘that unique’.
To summarize, the rng side would be great if the properties and traits were a bit more unique. So instead of thoses very basic +% against X we could have +X fire damage. Or X chance to bleed. Or X chance to drop an ammo.
Something that would allow more design space when it comes to weapons and builds.
And here, rng would be interesting, because you’ll go from a discovery to another, until you need a specific stuff which is were the reds would tackles in and could use a specific system like WoM one.
Which comes back to : generic properties & traits are what prevent the game to have a fun diablo side.
It always confuses me to no end how whenever someone brings this topic up, there is a flood of people who rush to say “reds aren’t important, Vermintide is about challenge not loot, orange loot works just as well” blah blah blah.
Of course those are all true statements, but it’s so incoherent with the actual visible design of the game it’s laughable. No V2 shouldn’t be about loot or grinding, yet everything about the design of the game reinforces these elements to new players. You can’t do this difficulty till you reach x power level. You don’t get traits till you get orange stuff, you can’t use your character talents till you level up etc.
As it stands the game heavily reinforces the idea of loot and grinding. There’s no question these mechanics are intended to extend playtime, player retention etc. But they’ve delivered this through a system that is so thoroughly divorced from any sense of metered progress it actually acts as a disincentive. You could get the specific red you want from the next round, or you could never get it at all.
This is why we keep seeing people bring up drop rates, and they will continue to do so till all the “loot doesn’t matter” people go blue in the face repeating themselves.
Of course the drop rate itself isn’t really the issue. It’s the entire delivery method and the excessive use of unfettered RNG (which will always inevitably lead to mass frustration and burnout). FS needs to decide what this game is actually about, because enjoying it in spite of its loot system just isn’t a reasonable ask for most potential players.