Don’t worry, mate, there isn’t nothing of incorrect. Just two cool guys with different opinions 
EDIT: sorry I was forgotting, in reality there is one incorrect thing. You talked about Shade like I compared her to GK, but she has never been in my mind because her role is too different
You raised the old thread first, and i have indeed not misread anything? Alright, you are indeed twisting your own words and a liar making false claims about others indeed. <.<
All is ok mate , you’re free to misunderstand my topic too (and I’m not ironic)
I already specified it one and I don’t feel the need to do again
You claim irony as if it is a shield but your statements include direct lies ( who did what first) followed by claims that i “misunderstand” your statement about something like Grail Knight being overshadowed because he cant tank overheads in a way that WP can, that WP can output more damage in general, monsters are not mentioned and getting surrounded is normal.
Slayer also overshadow GK because DPS against monsters and a leap cancels out everything GK beats slayer in?
No, no. I’m not ironic.
Yea that is correct.
Spot on, Gk performs exceptionally well on modded and is a popular pick.
Although modded is a different ball park the fact remains that he does well under pressure.
Doing well under the intense pressure of modded difficulties like Cata 3 Deathwith Real/Non-Tourney Dutch Spice Onslaught or even Spicy Onslaught proves that Gk is an exceedingly strong melee frontliner on regular cata and below.
Additionally, Gk is strong enough to still get nerfed on the most popular modded balance mods, such as “Tourney Balance Testing” and “Class Balance”.
So @souI23 can be lucky it was only a minor GK nerf from fatshark ;). And yeah GK is very the clear speed is so high that you do something wrong if you get crowded/cronered and even if you struggle with him, he still has a shield-weapon as an option and easy to reach stagger breakpoints. Furthermore with his ult he can delete even the strongest elites in mixed horde in front of you by a press on the F button, so you can more easily delete the horde afterwards.
Knowing how much Fatshark is good to overnerf, yep, I has been lucky 
But yeah, honestly I don’t care about the big brains behind that mod… I’ll keep my opinion
I supported your thread because in one thing you are correct, even if i think that GK is indeed in a very good spot, the nerf justification of fatshark was weird. They said they wanted to tackle the powercreep in monster damage. And overbuffed OE like hell, at the same time they nerfed dual daggers but let the dual axes untouched which are also brutal in monster damage. Also GK isnt that op for official realm to nerf it with this shady justification, because he didnt suck the fun out of the game for other party members. On modded rapax is correct that and the nerfs there are understandble because it is way more competitive with the tournaments so you have to bring all down to a more or less equal level.
Yep, I agree! I mean, tournament and normal game’s balance are pretty different, for this I was saying that mod isn’t a good example
However, I have no problem to admit that GK can do great things, like any career with the right skill, but that’s a different discussion from mine. Overshadowed =/= trash
To be clear i am with the argumentation of @Frostysir, but still i think the nerf came out of the blue and surprised me even i am aware he is maybe the best melee career. And the argumentation of fatshark was just weird looking what they nerfed/buffed and what not. And to be clear for official i havent seen a need for a nerf, other than on modded there a nerf is justified.
I dont care too much about the GK nerf because he is still the strongest imo. But as i said, he didnt hurt others fun, others are still OP in monster damage and even more than GK, and the justification of fatshark was the monster damage…which makes it just weird for me.
Fatshark balancing is a weird thing indeed i have played javelin recently a lot. In another thread i wrote that the breakpoints shouldnt onehit everything with that cleave. And because of legend many agreed that a minor cleave nerf would help out so that javelin isnt OP at legend and that the full amount cleaving through 10-12 slaverats isnt the reality at cata because of mixed hordes with armoured units and shielded trash minions, so it wouldnt hurt too much. What have they done? They removed cleave almost entirely and made the javelin more or less a single target weapon which cant onehit elites. To be clear it should not onehit them because of the infinite ammo. But they should have kept a certain cleave ability to make it a staggering- cleaving range weapon.
Yeah i still use it because of the stagger utility. But it feels underwhelming indeed.
And the OE buff and stating that they want to tackle powercreep is just a slap in the face and more or less a lie.
Also WP, yeah he doesnt take the fun away from others which is the main reason on official to justify a nerf. But why did they buff him? He was damn strong prepatch and you could fall asleep playing him with his flail because he hadnt any weakness and no risks to take. My philosophy in game design is if something should be able to be very powerful there should be also more risks. High risk high reward, rather than nerfs or buffs. I understand that a tank shouldnt be designed like that, but as i mentioned the input and skill you have to bring up for WP doesnt justify the outcome he has.
Thats my take on all those changes.
Yep, @Max93 … I mean, I agree on some points and I disagree on some else points, but that’s an interesting speech
Honestly I have always tought Fatshark gets lost in a glass of water. There were some balance changes, balance reasons, wich I just can’t understand
Other times they took truly mysterious paths. See the Huntsman, for example. Many people asked for a rework, Fatshark agreed and promised to bring back a re-reworked version after the last BBB
They had 4 years and now, instead of him, we saw changes on careers none complained against
exactly, but in my opinion I think the game is more clumsy than before these two patches…
As you were talking about GK above, I don’t think it is obfuscated, however, it seems to me that it needed something that I don’t know what it is, not just it, but also WP and OE, all these 3 classes are working in one kind of strange way, WP and OE working with “spam” and GK seems like a very good but incomplete class to me.
I gave her this idea a while ago, but I can’t say if it would be good or bad, especially because I don’t play with it much.
what do you think? it would remain, op, it would remain without many changes, or it would be irrelevant.
…
GRAIL:
new advantage: When a passive skill quest is completed, Kruber receives a chalice in the healing inventory. When drinking the chalice, Kruber receives a bonus of 6% more damage against enemies with armor and monsters (lasts until the end of the match) and removes bleeding, healing, 10 health. (Max: 3 stacks)
TALENT LEVEL 25
Virtue of Stoicism: 50% of damage taken is regenerated as temporary health after 3 seconds. +10% damage reduction
Virtue of Discipline: Timed blocks increase attack speed 10% and power level by 20% for 6 seconds.
Virtue of the Joust: Increases push arc and stamina regeneration by 30%. parry an attack, gains 10 temporary life.
TALENT LEVEL 30
Virtue of Audacity: Adds a second stab attack to Blessed Blade, dealing devastating single target damage. If you do not kill the enemy with the first hit of the holy blade, the cooldown is reduced by 30%.
“Before the patch, the blessed blade cooldown was 30 seconds, after the patch the cooldown was 60 seconds. With this change, the delay when hitting a monster and not killing it would go from 60 seconds to 42 seconds”
Virtue of the Impetuous Knight: Killing an enemy with Blessed Blade increases movement speed by 35% for 15 seconds. reduces blessed blade damage by 68%, hits reduce blessed blade cooldown by 2%, kills reduce it by 5%.
“This change would help with stagger on monsters with the blade blessed with low range and little damage, while still killing some elites… and extra movement to assist with these tasks”
Virtue of Confidence: Change Blessed Blade to a horizontal slash that Cleaves through and staggers multiple enemies. killing berserker enemies increases the damage of the next 2 attacks by 12% (maximum 5 stacks).
I´d probably not change the duties, RNG they may be but very powerful they can also be.
This is just flat out buffing him…but not so much that i´d be an issue? Alright, same deal with the discipline change.
I´d probably not change this one, stamina regen alone is already powerful enough.
This is a bad idea, the supposed goal of the patch was to tune down monster killers, and tho it was unsuccessful far more than it wasnt, we shouldnt try to undo the effort or make him better at it. Game already has too much of it.
Semi permanent big movespeed buff is probably a terrible idea, especially given innate extra 10% or so that he has.
What this one needs for cata is armor gliding on CW´s. Right now if you hit a raider then a CW you hit both, if you hit the CW first then he´s all you hit. Gliding would fix that.
Possibly some short buff of power after using the ability well or refunding part of the cooldown when killing a certain number or quality of enemies in a single swing.
What if this movement were to 15%?
and that? it would be good to give more survivability and a small buff when completing missions.
So, don’t you think this nerf wasn’t a bit exaggerated?
Could these proposed ultimate buffs be reduced to 20% for example?
even more power? one of his quests is already to give him more power. IMO it is a bad idea. And why you want to reward GETTING the reward for doing a quest? Dont overbuff him he is already nice. If you really want to change something, play around with stagger power, but his damage and mobility, as well as surviveablity are already great.
He does not have to give power, it could be, for example, 3% interval per mission (in this case, if he drinks the chalice).
but he can pass the chalice to an ally and he doesn’t get the cooldown, but the ally does.
It could be any buff, +15% area damage reduction, +3% hp, something like that…
but I think that these missions should not only give a bonus to the team, but also give a bonus to Kruber.
May be alright, but at the same time i cant instead help but wonder if its a worthwhile tradeoff, i do not play that build often enough to judge .c
To be honest i think its too much, if he gets easy quests then its pretty much instant bonus 20% extra damage the rest of the map. Going by how modded creators chose to nerf him i think it really is safe to state that he is already one of the strongest melee present in the game excluding living glitches like BW.
It wasnt to be honest, the power nerf was like 6% at full stacks, 24% instead of 30%, the ability cooldown went from 40 to 60 seconds. He still does the conc pot monster bullying just fine as long as the timings are on point and that should be considered a problem, though more an issue with conc pots rather than himself.
Then to note, the heavy attack build was buffed ontop, though about as little as the power on kill was nerfed.
Yep, I agree with more points; especially with the option to have a minimum of damage reduction, less RNG duties… and, mainly, a shorter cooldown
I mean, Fatshark wants to make the bosses last longer and thinks Blessed Blade is too strong
I disagree but, if Fatshark want to do so, they could just low a little the Monster Damage. Nerfing the cooldown, you’re nerfing the career vs everything… not only versus bosses. I mean, Virtue of Confidence, for example, is everything but a bosses killer
