RE: Grail knight

Some feedback:

GK is fairly weak, it excels at one and only thing while giving up everything else that makes for a complete class. That is, it’s good at single target boss damage and (maybe) elite damage. Arguably, shade does everything GK can do and better which bodes the question, why use GK when you can use shade?

Pros:

  • Very strong boss damage, comparable to shade F skill.
  • Good single target first hit damage due to 25% buff and a further 25% talent buff
  • Gimmick tasks that give permanent buffs to team for mission

Cons:

  • Absolutely no ability to control hordes. A single hyper density pack and GK is instantly dead without any way out.
  • F skill leaves GK vulnerable for ~0.5-1 second while it’s activating. Often times, this is enough time for the target to get a hit in, may or may not be fatal depending on difficulty
  • Bretonnian weapons are completely inferior to Empire ones. Longsword is lack luster compared to E-sword. S/S is completely outclassed by Empire M/S or S/S
  • No damage mitigation skills like FK or IB.
  • Very slow moving
  • No ranged to deal with team wiping specials such as multiple gas rats/ratling guns/assassins, while shield allows for no damage from warpfire ground burning effects will still damage.

GK needs to get:

  • improvements to horde control, for example, changing light 3 on B-S/S to light 2 would help immensely
  • better Bretonnian weapons, seriously, why is GK forced to use Empire weapons instead of Bretonnian ones because the former is simply superior? Sure you can use them but it’s like intentionally handicapping yourself to do so.
  • some manner of “ranged” weapon that allows one to deal with specials at range (Slayer got throwing axes for this exact reason, no?)
  • faster F skill animation or invulnerability while it’s in action (being poked by a SV while you’re attempting to F skill said SV is pretty ridiculous). The F skill weakness is not present in other classes as F activation is generally much faster, knocks back and or makes target lose lock and cease attacking. The reason behind this weakness is fairly simple, during the animation the blade is brought in front before being used as a sweep or a chop, during that motion, you re completely vulnerable to attack without being able to block. Removing this animation alone would resolve the weakness.
  • some manner of damage mitigation buff - seriously, it’s a GK, these guys are tough per lore. In game, FK is better.
  • warpfire should stop in front of GK if it’s blocked and not continue to burn through GK. As it burns through GK takes damage from the ground effects which pretty much negates the point of being able to block it to begin with.
6 Likes

Agreed. That’s annoying as hell.

5 Likes

Been playing GK and I find him pretty powerful. Mostly run X-sword and mace+shield. Horde control is fine. Boss and elite damage is stellar, especially if you take the strength pot talent and Concoction trait - you get increased speed and damage for 30 seconds plus almost instant recharge of your ult. This allows you to decimate bosses and patrols.

I’d recommend the horizontal ult as you can take out multiple targets. It’s really satisfying to wipe out 2-3 charging plague monks in a single strike The ult animation is not a problem when you get used to it, just create space by dodging or pushing before you trigger it (just like with Ranger and Bounty Hunter Ults).

Gotta say I don’t find specials a problem at least on legend. I’ve been running legend deeds as GK with bots only and it’s totally fine. Packmasters can be 1 shot easily at a safe distance with X-sword. You can walk right up to a flame rat an hit it twice with mace+shield easily. Gas rats are pretty easy to chase down. Assassins can be parried. You just need to use your ears for leeches. Blightstormers are the main problem but it’s easy to avoid the storms.

Overall, I think GK is really fun, distinct from the other classes, but on a similar power level. The only gripe I have is that there are no GK cosmetics in the Emporium yet. I really want a shield+mace with a Bretonnian emblem. And standard sword + shield variant would also be welcome (none of the Sigmar crap).

That’s part of the issue. You’re forced to use Empire weapons and not Bretonnian weapons. The former completely outclasses the latter in every way shape and form. This shouldn’t be the case.

I just find X-sword fun. Bretonnian sword + shield has great crowd control, just push+light attack and you do a shield push + shield bash. If you have the stagger THP trait you generate tons of THP and if you take the 30% push angle + stamina talent you have excellent crowd control and awesome protection from chip damage.

I standardly run Bretonnian longsword on Merc ane Huntsman. It’s all around good without exceling at anything. Crowd control is a matter of light-light-block cancel, with some movement and dodging thrown in. The lateral swings make it easy to get multiple headshots and cleave more targets. It’s also easy to headshot elites with the heavy attacks: heavy 1 and 2 chain into light 3 (the overhead armour-piercing strike).

1 Like

To not get wrecked by named plague monks, you need to prepare your blessed sword and wait for them to get close enough to strike. Meanwhile, the Elgi shot the other eighteen that were coming by pressing F, or just by using her Longbow.
Visually pleasing the GK might be, but that’s about 90% of his pro list.

Wouldnt even count them as a pro. Its entirely random if you get buffs that do something for your team. 10% more damage and the 10% CD reg have the impact of a wet noodle.

On Cata GK performs like Sodium. Everything is alright until it gets wet and explodes in your face. Not bringing a Shield plus Joust is a one way ticket into “get poked to death by specials” hell. Monster damage being fine is a great point until you realize two out of the five monsters leave AoEs behind you have to slowly walk around or out of the start hitting the monster again. Using your Blessed Sword always has to be a calculated decision, since a Panic F will cost more life than you can recover with the hit, or the wind up might even end you. Talking monster damage again. Its only in somewhat close proximity to Shade if you toss the much better horizontal slash for the double strike.
His base life might be high, but no DR means that his EHP is equal to a Shade with his DR Talent.

The worst about him for me is that not bringing a shield equals disaster about to be happening. It might aswell be fuzed to his second slot. A reworked Virtue of Stoicism, which does ease GKs AoE and special weakness instead of doubling down on it, would do wonders for that issue.

I get that he is probably alright on Legend, but him being weak to everything that Cata tosses at you gets old rather quickly. Even the qualities that he gets called out for, Monster dps, and Elite culling, is particularly amazing compared to careers like Shade, WHC, Waystalker, or any Sienna.

There is also this bloody bug, which needs fixing since day 1.

1 Like

Shields, 1h mace, 2h hammer, mace and sword do quite well too. There are a lot of options man.

5 Likes

Bring a shield, strongest melee cc you can get.

cc first and/or dodge; ideally with a shield (see above).

Kinda agree mostly because I prefere Empire S&S’s attack pattern over anything else. Shield bash on first heavy will always be superior to B S&S where it’s ‘late’ in the chain. I have seen people using B S&S to great success, though, so I think this is mainly about personal preference.

Longsword is one of Kruber’s best weapons, however, considering its versatility and reliability.

GK is actually tanky. Not because of inherent damage reduction but by having insane tHP sustain. Conceptually, he’s working a lot like Zealot. I almost never feel the need to heal green HP because sustaining white is so easy. Virtue of Stoicism is an amazing talent even though it’s been poorly implemented since day 1.

10 or 15% base movement speed and movetech from weapons: Mace&Sword or S&S significantly increase your effective ms all around. You’ll be cruising like a Slayer, just learn it. 4Head

In the end, avoiding specials comes down to individual play. Having a team to fall back on is nice but I try to play as if I was solo when it comes to dealing with specials.
You can’t take out a Blightstormer in the far distance (just like Slayer) but they’re no danger for you either. Gunners and Flamers are canceled by a shield, anything else can be dodged and killed in melee range.

2 Likes

At least the shield looks good. It’s bigger.

How about give a invincibility when he releases his ult?

Or

Rework his ult:

  • When activates the ult, he gains Invincibility amount of time.
  • And gains a lot of other buffs too, like: Amount of power bonus, speed bonus, stamina regen bonus, etc.

If a paid DLC career had been the BEST at something, there’d be way more outcry than now when he’s just good.

There are some fixes that should be made - like reducing the vulnerability while using the ult and the shield should also have the same effect on ratling bullets - but you get the benefits of equipping both a safe shield and normal melee weapon at the cost of ranged options. That’s unique, and fun. Crowd control is NOT an issue here unless your standard is conflagration staff.

1 Like

Mace and Sword spamming Heavy attacks on him is one of the strongest builds in the game. It even gives him Horde Clear. I run that with Power or Smiter. Mace and Sword is probably one of the more underrated Melee Weapons in the game. It makes him god tier, because of the movement while doing Heavies.

Then you just run Mace and Shield.

His survival comes from him using Shield Weapons and his insane killing power (with on-kill THP).

He doesn’t need a single buff. Please post gameplay.

If you can get Heavies off with Exe Sword, you can get his Ult off without taking damage.

3 Likes

Frankly I think GK can actually be op even compared to other careers if supported properly, more so than others are, simply due to very very high bodyshot damage (quite useful in high intensity situations when the need for a clutch can still be prevented) and how that meshes well with high stagger teams. This is balanced out by low clutch potential (of course GK can clutch but they still aren’t good for it). Overall I think GK works as intended - Elite dps with more room for error and with better capability than Slayer when it comes to making sure one gets temp hp on kill.

I don’t at all personally enjoy how GK plays or playing with one, but GK works well in a team that plays with them rather than against. Shade and WHC have comparable or sometimes better single target dps but they can’t stand right next to an IB the way GK can.

I really do wish they broke from the theme a little and made a Kruber career that was more independent than the others, but Fatshark likes their themes, and Grail Knight is a pretty good implementation of a Grail Knight.

2 Likes

I’d suggest that using his ult should automatically collect all grims, tomes and complete the mission with a victory.

7 Likes

this is very much so not true, Kruber’s arsenal has multiple options for controlling hordes

objectively untrue, Bsword is less single target damage than Exec, sure, but it’s better in hordes, has higher stagger and significantly higher cleave and more attack speed. Bretonnian longsword is one of the best weapons kruber has currently.

he’s as fast if not faster than the other Krubers barring FK’s charge

again, objectively wrong, Bsword/shield I’ll agree is a somewhat lackluster weapon but the ability to push and then instantly slam with light 3 makes it a solid “stagger stick”.

Grail Knight is a rather balanced character all in all

2 Likes

The RNG of level 25 talents needs to be changed.

The biggest GK’s problem is that there are other careers wich can do his job without all those malus.

  • GK has zero mobility, zero survivability, no panic button options… when I play him, I feel everything so slow… he misses an option to escape from a bad situation, to “jousting” on the battlefield;

  • No ranged options. Wich is, in this game, a serious malus;

  • A risky ult. Seriously, I can’t understand why it has to be so risky… also because, it’s strong but nothing awesome. For example the horizontal slash can’t kill more than 2 SV… or more than 1 CW (and only with Virtue of Temper).

  • RNG duties…

All this malus just to kill elites? And maybe bosses (if I choose the correct talent, wich makes the ult even riskier)? As said, there are better careers that can do this without all these cons.

Some players oneshot some ambient CWs and think “Oh, GK is so strong”… but almost every career can kill ambient CWs… they aren’t even a threat.
CWs are dangerous when they come during a bad situation… and here a career has to work. Shade can go invs and kill it. BH can kill it at distance. WHC can cast the ult and free the entire field, CW included.
GK, instead, must hope to reach that CW (because a CW can be protect among enemies) and hope that crit% works.
(As wrote in a different thread, I don’t want start a discussion about GK vs other careers… and I will not answer about this argument. I just brought some examples to explain what I mean.)

GK doesn’t need big buff… just something to “polish” him.

  • For example the ult must be safer… with faster animations or some dmg redcution;

  • Duties must stop to be RNG;

  • Something to give to him more “freedom of action” on the battlefield. Dunno… Bastion of Bretonnia is really cool, but could be better. Example: GK can’t be pushed (from SV’s push, CW’s kick/punch, Gatling’s stun, etc etc)… I need more time to think, anyway something similar.

2 Likes

I don’t get this impression of the class at all, I’m not even really good at GK but:

He definitely can handle dense hordes and has a selection of weapons which can do so, e.g. shields.

The delay before F skill is easily adapted to, it makes it less of a panic button but is still very easily usable in tight situations if you push before for example to clear space.

Bret longsword is very good, bret s&s is decent.

He has +10% movement speed (and movetech options), definitely not slow, though not having a mobility ult is rough vs specials

I agree that he is not a good anti special option, slayer can handle them much more easily with leap. This is the main weakness of the class and offsets the very high melee power and fast recharge elite deletion.

3 Likes

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Whoa, I’m pretty sure this isn’t called for. Yes, maybe they could have phrased their disagreement with your suggestions/feedback in a more friendly, less baiting manner, but this kind of response just isn’t on. There’s plenty of other more constructive comments you can get involved with, and ignore the ‘troll’.

4 Likes
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