Grail Knight trivializes all monsters and lords

As the title states. It is really just passing the potion to the GK and wait until he has hit it a few times.
I remember when that much burst dmg got nerfed from different classes because FS thought it was wrong.

Now, they got a DLC out and it is suddenly no problem anymore.


But shade doesn’t?


That adds to the problem, bosses don’t even survive for 30sec anymore.



All monsters and lords are trivial - except perhaps Chaos Spawns which are a significantly more failure inducing than others (though still kinda low), - but that is definitely not GK’s fault.

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bosses have always been extremely easy to nail down if you had enough dps output

GK doesn’t make any significant difference on that front


On that note, probably something that needs rebalancing so the gap between lower and high tier boss damage isn’t so insane. A few seconds compared to a few minutes is just silly.


I don’t agree… bosses (if you have a nice dps) die “easily” also without Grail Knight.

GK hasn’t damage reduction or survivability… nor a ranged weapon. And his ult is really risky.
He really needs this power.

Now, apart GK speech, let me add one thing. Someone could say: “is it fair if bosses can die so easily?”. My personal answer is that we must consider the overall situation: as long as bosses can spawn in very tight places, together with many specials and elites… yep, kill them quickly is the only thing that makes them fair.
We have also to consider that all this is possible only if there is “a bosses deleter” career… I mean, it’s his work. Otherwise why should I have a bosses killer in the team?


I would recommend getting out of champion and playing on Cata. He sure as hell doesn’t 1 shot a boss.


I don’t think boss killer classes do get picked much if that’s all they do. It’s a gimmick at that point.

Also, bosses should be hard, one in a tough spot should be a notable challenge that might need you to reposition. Having a class that makes them not a concern anywhere isn’t very fun for anyone else.

If a class is useless without being able to nuke bosses, the class should get a rework.


Shade, BH. Huntsman.

Big nukes aren’t new. Could add a threshold max damage but then what’s the point to bringing a dps. Maybe a nerf/replacement to some of the nuke talents could help with more variety and survival to such classes… but meh

Shade, Bounty Hunter and Beam BW. Just another one for the list.

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And this is the problem… some bosses locations don’t let you to reposition. If in a tight corridor I have boss + horde + specials + elites… I can just hope to delete the boss in few seconds.

Now, I don’t want to go too much in off topic, I just want to say that if Fatshark decides to make bosses tougher, they should also rework some spawn points… and perhaps how many specials can spawn during the boss fight.

p.s: bosses killer careers aren’t useful only vs bosses, it’s correct, but it remains a good part of their job

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While I completely disagree that Grail Knight trivializes all monsters and lords (and people have already covered my thoughts on that, pretty much, but if anyone still has any doubts, check this post: Longsword - maybe to good), I do think there’s something wrong with the sheer amount of damage he can do to armored lords.

I haven’t played shade or bounty hunter in ages, so I don’t know if this is an issue that blessed blade/virtue of audacity has, or if any of the monster killers can do this, but for some reason GK just absolutely obliterates Skarrik Spinemanglr, Gatekeeper Naglfahr, and Bodvarr Ribspreader.
Coincidentally, all three lords are armored.
Either all 3 coincidentally have pitiful health bars, or blessed blade has an incorrectly overtuned armor damage multiplier. If someone could test that out in modded realm to confirm whether I’m crazy or there’s something really wrong here, I’d appreciate it.

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Yes, this! FS has completely borked the balance, up to a point where you can’t properly balance anymore.

If you have a party of single target damage dealers (like GK, Shade, & BH) a bossfight or fight with a randomly spawned monster is over in seconds, even on Cata. I’ve seen Boddvar and Skarrik die before finishing their first sentence, and not all too rarely my monster lifetime registration mod shows me numbers under 20 seconds. If nobody brought a single target damage dealer, however, (say a party of IB, HM, FK, UC) the same fight can last dozens of minutes instead. This situation is completely unbalanceable. If you balance fights around the first party, they will become ridiculous for the latter. And when you balance it for the second party, they will become even more trivial for the first one.

It’s perfectly fine to have classes being better at one aspect of the game than others. And a specific party being better at a specific thing than another one is also perfectly fine. But the disparity right now is simply too big. You could accept that, and say in V2 taking your party composition in account should be a thing. You’d need to coordinate with your teammates and have characters to compensate each other’s weaknesses, right? I completely dislike that. Not only because of quickplay becoming more difficult, but also because it restricts choice and variety.

And even then the overall balance is still off, because a single target class can deal with its weaknesses (like hordes) relatively much better than a crowd control class can deal with monsters. This disbalance shifts the meta towards single target classes way too much.

So, how to solve this? I feel the only choice is to reduce the disparity in single target damage between classes. Easiest solution would be a damage cap vs. monsters and bosses (with a lower cap vs. bosses than vs. monsters) for the culpable skills like Infiltrate and Blessed Strike. Those skills could then still delete things like Chaos Warriors, but without making certain fights trivial and unbalanceable for when those skills aren’t in play.

A more creative option I would really like to see could be to do the above, but then also reduce monster hitpoints by a lot. That way, monsters still die really fast to single target specialists, but also a lot faster vs. classes that aren’t as dedicated. And when monsters are therefore easier overall, you could spawn them in a lot more per map! Think about it! Monsters can make situations a lot more interesting, their offensive qualities are still awesome, so fighting them is still fun, but the fights become a lot less damage-sponging slogs overall. And since monsters come more often and are still a threath, it’d still be a good choice to pick single target specialists. But not bringing one isn’t causing such a ridiculous disparity either.


Those three lords don’t use lord damage reduction which is 80% + other caps, and instead use armored boss damage reduction which is 20% + other caps, which is why they’re super squishy lords. Even bosses use boss damage reduction which is 55% + other caps.

As far as armor damage multipliers, blessed blade works pretty much the same way as BH ult and Waystalker piercing shot do, the damage multiplier is higher for monsters and uniform for all else.


In that case you’ve got a tough fight, like you’d expect from a boss? it’s fine to have hard situations in a game without the means to just ignore them.

This is really it yeah, having classes do higher monster DPS is absolutely fine, it’s the insane burst that I think is too much, and some weapons are just painful vs bosses. Even in a legend TS, some weapons just take forever to whittle down a rat ogre, while you just repeat the exact same thing over and over and over again, it’s awful.

Not sure on the solution outside just toning down those ults a bit though, BH at least seems easy enough to solve, his CD reduction is just stupid. Lowering boss HP a bit while toning down burst is probably the best way to go.


I would call it “unfair”, if you don’t have “consistent” ways to deal with it… but opinions, I think.

Anyway, imho, Fatshark means bosses more like “big” elites than real bosses… I mean, seeing how and where they get generated… the fact that we can have no-boss runs or three bosses runs… but sure, I can’t know it, just personal thoughts.

In that case you’ve got a tough fight, like you’d expect from a boss? it’s fine to have hard situations in a game without the means to just ignore them.

A situation like that is not particularly “difficult”. If you can no longer navigate or position yourself, it’s just a numbers game, much like afk arena.

If you want bosses to be an actual threat in areas which people can navigate, then they should no longer be able to spawn in incredibly tight areas.

Fatshark just needs to:

  • Buff bosses and certain lords (bodvarr/skarrik mainly)
  • Slightly nerf super nukes like BH, GK, shade etc.
  • Buff weapons which are straight up trash against bosses to further lessen the requirement of a boss murderer.

When people start talking about nerfing “super nukes” and list BH I get the shivers. Now GK is also on the list for some to me unknown reason.

BH absolutely needs to land a Headshot with Locked and Loaded while Blessed Shot is up. Otherwise, he deals like, well, this amount of damage. In other words, there is no reason to touch him at all.

Mindlessly buffing Lords just makes them a slog. Skarrik is as easy because he is standing still like he wants to get headshot continuously. The same goes for Bodvarr. Make the first jump around more the later not stand still for half an hour crying for help. Health and damage output can be adjusted afterwards. Changes are a lot more called for than the buff hammer.


I get your point, but landing a headshot as BH is not at all hard, almost every boss or lord has an animation where they stand basically still, and after that you stunlock them. It’s a pretty easy shot for at least a few chains, and if you can aim well (by this games standards) you don’t even need a pot to absolutely bully bosses.

Also is that clip using double shotted? You mentioned the name of the ult but not the talent, is the only reason I ask.

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