Probably just as mind-boggling as the concept of simply not tolerating mods that are identical to hacks. It seems i was pretty spot on with there being a fundamental parting of ways…
In any case let me describe it to you in a few steps:
Lets not tolerate wallhacks in the game
and that’s it, there are no more steps after that!
And the special MM for mods has nothing to do with. Go on and have it for whatever nonsensical reason you feel like we need a special MM for people with True level mod, but have it without the wallhacks.
Why? It’s one or two of the regulars on this topic now switching to the “just asking questions” BS tactic, I won’t fall for it, again I mean.
He (they) used up the benefit of the doubt in the past (more than 1), he doesn’t get another because he thinks people don’t remember, and generally people have very short mems so they keep trying to rewrite history.
So yeah you and I agree but I don’t see the need to treat the regular trolls (and that’s what they’re doing with their rhetorical ploys) with kiddy gloves or feed them.
TLDR lies need to be called out and insincere civility is a smokescreen that I choose to mod out.
Cool hopefully when Fatshark decides to continue to allow them you trolls who can’t barely achieve anything beyond ad hom and my way or the highway rhetoric horsesh*t will finally get so malding over it you find another game to bind your egos to… tilting at windmills always wondering if that scrub in YOUR game is using haxx.
I just thought it was funny that they were medically necessary. I mean I guess not to the people who got upset and flagged the post, but that was someone’s argument being made…my hands hurt, so I must cheat.
An interesting side effect of a mod priority queue would be that people with simple mods (e.g. True Level) would be more likely to queue with wall-hackers.
I don’t expect to find a lot of sympathy here, but it would disproportionately affect mod users imo. This is assuming most mods in use are simple QoL (which nexus numbers would suggest).
What’s concerning to me is that any opportunity we as a community have to police mods devolves into… well, see above. While I’m sure it’s not a perfect measure, we have seen at least a decent track record obscuring the most egregious mods from public distribution. It would be nice to recognise that, because it is in fact the force behind our rather lively mod scene in Darktide — warts and all!
So if mod use is going to continue to be community-moderated, it might be time for FS to recognise that and put some effort into making that known and felt. For instance when a mod topic is created (Yet Another Wallhack Nexusmod hehehe) at the very least a CM could drop a message. Assuming they give a which I am going to assume here.
Because as much as I love mods, in Darktide and in general, there is too much potential for abuse to be entirely complacent about the current state of affairs imo.
The potential became kinetic a long time ago, complacency did indeed help it transform into that, and now the cheaty users (still) want us to to still be complacent and just ignore cheat mod after cheaty mod.
They hate being called out on it and public shaming is the only weapon at our disposal currently, and this mirrors IRL, sadly.
Because locked threads achieve nothing and I genuinely think you’re being overly inflammatory towards @PSI2007 who was already agreeing the linked mod is a travesty. I was enjoying finding some common ground with them on this topic honestly, and we are all largely powerless in this issue anyway, I don’t think it’s worth getting into flame wars over much of what they said. I think I understand their perspective fine (and they can correct me here if I’m wrong). They think mods are a huge net benefit and are probably wary that Fatshark is pretty bad at active moderation and sometimes overcorrect, and don’t want bad mods getting good mods nuked. I don’t think that worry is terribly well founded in this case but I completely sympathise with that view point.
Buddy you probably don’t want to be liking my posts here. I find gpk needlessly aggressive on this topic, but frankly I’d need a series of words that would each be a bannable offence to accurately describe how I feel about your “contribution” to this thread. Even some of the biggest mod defenders here have shown they can at least draw a line at wall hacks. If your only contribution is to say “anything goes” then just say that and leave, that’s the best contribution you could hope to make here.
I can honestly see why you think that, but it doesn’t pass the smell test based on everything they wrote here and before, the JAQing in particular reeks of insincerity, this on top of the regular gaslighting, revisionism and trolling, as I said I’m tired of feeding the same troll more than twice.
The linked mod is indeed a travesty, as are many, so if those get a pass so does this one as in the grand scheme of things it’s not that far off and meets the standards of what a sizable chunk of the player base deems acceptable and totally not cheaty at all because hashtag reasons. I’m ashamed at our collective complacency and doubly so of the cheaty mod authors who deserve more ire than the cheaty end-user.
On a related note, EA/Dice have apparently done such a good job so far with their anti-cheat that (some?) cheat developers are apparently not going to bother with it at all.
Needlessly? If anything, I’ve been holding back and as long as we’re being honest, I think some of y’all need to take it up notch and let your disdain be known loudly and proudly.
The cheaters and their simps rely on us to not speak up so they can keep the cheat-train going and that’s simply unacceptable, I’ve been calling out cheaters for 3 decades of online gaming and I don’t intend to stop anytime soon.
They’re not mutually exclusive though. We can still outright bad the really cheaty mods with this preference toggle method. I believe FS do currently ban some mods if they step over the line so they would still keep doing that.
I suppose I did arrive out of nowhere to deliver what basically amounted to a sermon. It’s not my habit to address such statements from the ether, but the premise of the original post was so profoundly absurd that I couldn’t help myself.
As to the question, if I’m a Zealot main? To a certain extent, I suppose you can say that I am. On Vermintide 2, I’m a Saltzpyre main. As for Darktide, while the Zealot Judge was the first character I made, I now play all classes relatively evenly. So, since we all know that now, perhaps the why it happened made some sense.
Wall hacks should still be banned (as they are now I think?) so it shouldn’t be a problem.
If modders came into contact with egregious mods more frequently (which are in the game anyway) then I like to think that it would be better policed/flagged by modders familiar with nexus etc.
Who better to call out mods than those familiar with them. So it’s actually kind of a win win imo.
Surely it’s better for modders to decide what goes over the line? To me as a non modder, all gameplay mods would be struck off so it’s a fair compromise lol
Finally, the amount of non modders affected by egregious mods far outweighs the number of modders affected by them, so in fairness, the above suggestion tracks.
We can’t please everyone all the time but we can try and make a fairer environment. If the ‘cost’ of using mods is simply having to play with other mod users a bit more, then that really doesn’t sound so bad.
The point wasn’t to defend any one mod, but to question where the line actually lies between cheats and informational tools. Some of what OP listed merely presents data that the game already tracks, while others go further. Treating them all as “cheats” without distinction oversimplifies the issue.
My argument was more about that distinction; whether it’s consistent to call something a “cheat” when it doesn’t change game mechanics or outcomes, but helps players interpret what’s already happening. I think that’s where the discussion about integrity and fairness gets more interesting.
I’d argue that tracking and displaying are 2 very different things. If the game tracks information but intentionally doesn’t display it to the player, then having a mod display it - is a form of crutch IMO (I can’t think of a nicer word and ‘cheat’ would no doubt rile).
It is making the game easier by providing data in a form that is likely easier to digest, but the devs deliberately chose not to show. It’s creating an advantage through modification.
The game is balanced around the vanilla build that doesn’t have modified advantages to the players so that should be kept in mind.
Learning the distance you should keep from barrels is a skill that is learned through experience. Learning when to quell is a skill learned through experience. Learning good positioning and checking corners is a skill learned through experience. Learning when to check crates instead of simply x-raying them is a skill learned through experience. Etc Etc. Having mods that remove the need to learn these skills is a significant skill bypass in this game. I just don’t understand the mentality of wanting to bypass that stuff. Like, just play the game and get to feel those things. Yes sometimes you will be trapped and sometimes you will be blown off a ledge. That’s the game. Sh!t happens! Then you learn from it for the next time.
This sums up one of my general attitudes towards mods, which is that they are an inherently unfair advantage by nature of the fact that some players cannot choose to use them. So the question then becomes, “what unfair advantages are acceptable to use in missions with strangers?” and the answer for that is subjective. You’ve touched on that subjectivity in your post above:
Personally, I share your attitude towards using mods to improve my own performance: I love the game and pushing myself, so crutching on something I feel is making up for one of my shortcomings (as opposed to one of the game’s shortcomings) isn’t for me. So, for myself, I would be degrading my own experience if I used a health bar or outlines or wallhack mod.
But I do use NumericUI. I don’t know why we don’t have accurate ammo counts in-game yet, but that appears to be a decision (at least not to prioritize it) made by FS…and one I don’t agree with. So, I use NumericUI to be a better teammate. I watch others’ ammo counts, make extra effort to ping ammo when someone needs it, and I keep tabs on everyone so I don’t goblin the ammo.
It gives me access to information hidden in vanilla, which is inherently an unfair advantage. But I use it for good.
Ditto with other mods. If you’ve got some health bar or outlines mod, I don’t care by default. When I do care is when it sucks for the strangers you play with…like you’re constantly KSing my mobs or breaking my immersion by telling me there are grenades 6 rooms ahead of us or yelling Ogryn lines in our Ogryn-less group.
It’s a people problem.
If you feel like you need an unfair advantage to enjoy the game, I’m not really bothered by that. Just don’t be a jerk. And that’s absolutely possible even while using Spidey Sense or this new psyker mod or whatever.
Unfortunately people are going to be people, which means this is as unavoidable as water is wet. This thread wouldn’t even exist if people could refrain from being jerks, as jerk mods wouldn’t be uploaded to Nexus and then subsequently downloaded by more jerks. That will never change so we must work around it.
I certainly share the sentiment that many mods would ruin my own enjoyment. That is precisely why I don’t use them. In a game where simply beating the game is the reward, I would always have the nagging question “did I succeed due to a mod(s)?”. But since many other people use mods, I do often wonder “was this team really great because some of them had mods”. It’s just the way my mind works. When I do something, I like to do it properly.
If I knew no mods were used in the team I could say to myself “we did it! We beat the game and genuinely without any crutches”. After all, that unfettered sense of achievement is my reward now that I have unlocked everything, and I’d rather not be robbed of that after a sweaty hour long mission.
Obviously I have long since accepted that I will often be surrounded by mods in missions so I am just being honest here. Cards on the table etc. It’s why I would like the match-making preference toggle.
Modders currently get to play the way they want and whenever they want so would be nice if us non-modders got at least a hint of choice in the matter. If anyone says “why does it matter?” then really the same could easily be said for mods. Why does succeeding in the game matter so much that you must use modified advantages? Why not just play a lower difficulty if the un-modded game is too challenging? But hey ho. People will think I am being facetious but I am not.
Please excuse my ignorance but what exactly does this do? If it is to solely monitor teammates ammo…then I’ll have to admit not understanding the need for it. The yellow/red indicators have always sufficed for me and in any realistic sense you’d never be privy to a teammates exact ammo count. Would seem overkill to me but that’s just me. Yellow - they’re roughly at 2/3-1/2. Red - they need ammo ASAP. Simples!
I do dearly wish FS would implement all the QoL hub mods into the game. I see they snuck in more slots for builds and also for characters, but many of the other ones I have read about would be ace.
With gameplay though, I just yearn for a level playing field and a true sense of achievement.
The beauty of mods in action! I’ve never been satisfied with the ammo color-coding. And I use NumericUI exclusively to monitor teammate ammo. The numbers are accurate, which is helpful. But it’s also helpful for remembering who is using what, which plays into the ammo distribution equation.
Fair enough. I’d likely get too hung up on micro-percentages and start getting distracted by the urge to constantly monitor. I’ve certainly never felt the need for precise teammate ammo counts, but I’m also a dyslexic ADHD’r so perhaps basic colours and ‘vibe check’ metrics suits me best in that regard.
On the flipside - you seem like a reasonable person, but if an unreasonable person was to constantly monitor precise ammo of teammates then that could encourage a certain toxicity, when vague ammo indicators, in my experience, do suffice.
Just playing devils advocate here. Again, it’s just the way my brain works!
hehehe) at the very least a CM could drop a message. Assuming they give a 
which I am going to assume here.
I suppose I did arrive out of nowhere to deliver what basically amounted to a sermon. It’s not my habit to address such statements from the ether, but the premise of the original post was so profoundly absurd that I couldn’t help myself.