I would agree with you if it was not for the fact that it really does not balance anyting.
Let me give you the best example in the game of this issue. The Lucius laz gun, the one that has the charge up shot. has the longest ready time in the game for laz guns. You might say to your self, this is balance becuase its also the hardest hitting. Well. when the vet uses his ability, he has to sit through that enitre ready time if he has he melee weapon out when he uses his ability. By the time the gun is aimed, charged, and fired, well over half the duration of the ability is used up.
HOWEVER, if you pull this gun out first, THEN use your ability, you can start charging and shooting right away.
So that entire notion of balance is out the window.
I feel you man, after games like Tarkov, such shoddy gamedes for my favorite game hurts.
I wanna have gun cylinders with correct number of bullets, clips of different size, ogryn not sliding 1 shell into his cannon gauntlet and firing 4 shots…
There’s still hope, but I seriously doubt it get fixed.
aye it’s just kind of a slap in the face to any players that are forced to watch a relatively grating animation on repeat, and also know that it doesn’ tactually make any sense. all i want to see is, even if you have to ahve a slow withdraw animation, at least make the animations make sense? that’s really all i want and it’d be pretty unfortunate to see it remain the way it is.
I agree so much with this, so much I can’t help saying it again and again. These animations do not make sense. Nor really ,does the speedbump of going to ranged. This speedbump hurts gameplay, and it gets much much worse on the higher tier weapons. The bolt gun is god awful in this respect.
And to add insult to injury, the pistols do not have this problem. That’s the autopistol of the zealot and the laser of the psyker. Both have animations that are effective and simple reloads.
I just got the boltgun today and oh boy is it painful to watch yourself rack the bolt, then go through the entire reload animation… which includes racking the bolt again right at the end.
I’m not complaining about the reload time, the bolter is a powerful gun and the animation feels weighty, as it should, but the dumb swap animation makes it painful to use.
I’ve been partially reloading before I swap to melee when on an empty mag, just to save that state to shorten the swap time.
Adding my 2 cents.
The Plasma gun in it’s current state is PERFECT, it’s the most fun gun to use. I’ve been using it over the Boltgun simply because the Plasma gun has a .5 second draw and can fire almost immediately. This makes it inherently 500x more useful than the Boltgun and puts it in a position of being actually helpful when you have an urgent Special to deal with.
(Example video for a situation linked below this paragraph)
The Weapons need a lot of work, they should NOT be forced to replay the Racking animation on every re-equip and should have their reloads effected by how many rounds you have left, here are some example videos showing how much better the Plasma gun feels to use over the Bolt gun in it’s current state, and the same can be said for Autoguns and the Lasguns.
They desperately need to add reloads to the ballistic weapons for full, partial and empty Magazines with +1 capabilities.
That’s just how it should be these days, especially in a game like this that requires snap-reactions and has important enemies to deal with rapidly.
The Boltgun is laughably slow compared, as a result it’s just far more impractical and less fun to use.
FS has made the excuse that the equip-times are “Because of the weapons weight” but they completely ignore this on the Plasma Gun, so clearly they’re talking garbage to make excuses.
This needs to be addressed, the Melee bias is obvious and it’s heavily impacting the enjoyment of the game for a lot of people.
Fix Bolters, Fix Helbores, half the draw-times and remove the constant re-racking animations that you’ve forced onto every gun.
I will also stand with my brothers and sisters on this animation issue. Guns shall not be forced to rack twice if I have anything to say about it.
Exactly all of this.
The weapons all feel great, and feel great as 40K guns.
But the slug throwers feel stupid with all the extra hollywood bolt racks.
if you look at the animation on the lasguns, it’s not pulling back a slide, it’s turning the safety off with the big lever on the side. It’s still a bit much IMO, but certainly not unheard of.
Yeah I went and looked at this anim a few times, and despite me saying “DON’T BE STUPID IT’S CLEARLY A SLIDE” (oops) - it is moving some big switch thing, which seems like a safety? The way your arm moves does look a bit odd, I always thought they were pulling a charging handle.
It’s only when I recorded and watched the anim back frame by frame I really saw what they were doing.
It’s mad that you would toggle the safety off and on and off and on when reloading the weapon in the heat of combat. I mean I could understand when equipping it… but since melee switch is instant, you don’t turn the safety on when you put the weapon away anyway
So the whole thing is just odd. I’d rather that when you reloaded, you just slapped a new powerpack home. I don’t even like the fact that we have such a cumbersome speed bump when switching to ranged, but it’s not a point I would derail this thread by arguing on, and I recognise the balancing purpose behind it.
The most important thing for me from this thread is that conventional weapons (magazine-fed) don’t do all this totally bizarre weapon charging. It grates and serves no purpose.
It’s like @TheMasterFALE said earlier - “hollywood bolt racks” - perfect description.
I can buy this switch is some kind of electrical primer to get the battery talking to the main body of the laser.
But it’s still silly.
It’s SIlly you wouldn’t do that with your thumb on the hellbore, since it’s right there, like working the safety on a mauser rifle or Enfield.
It’s silly you do it again when a big brute hit you and you go flying.
It’s silly you do it again when you hit a button.
It’s silly you do it again when a barrel explodes close by.
IT’s silly you do it again when pulling your knife for a sec.
It’s silly you do it again when throwing a grenade.
It’s silly you do it again when using an auspex.
It’s silly you do it again when…
It’s silly you do it again when…
It’s silly you do it again when…
i mean, at the current system you’d be cycling the bold of the Mauser after being hit by a brute…
Man that whole mess is effin annoying. PlagueGryn or BoN hits you… and instead of being able to unload… aha h have to correct term that is not allowed on the forum. other term for rooster the gun!
I am so infuriated with the slide racking when pulling a fully loaded weapon out, especially on an empty gun.
“Oh you want to shoot that fancy gun of yours thats all loaded and ready because you are proactive and prepare before each firefight? lol rerack it again!”
“Oh you shot all your ammo and put it away to melee and now you need to quickly reload…”
WHY ARE YOU RACKING IT!?
PUT A MAG IN IT! AGhhh
Kills all the momentum and skilled play. It’s a game yet we are asking for realism because that system would more fun than what is being done right now.
I’m just so glad it’s not just me, honestly. I wasn’t sure how many players would just come from VT2, not know or care much about guns beyond “it make good sound dakka dakka yes”, and I’d be in a tiny minority
it just feels awful and like it was an afterthought nailed onto a combat system that was already finished and wasn’t properly tested so it sticks out as a sore thumb. Repeating the animation after getting staggered sometimes,doing the animation on an empty clip and then reloading some, weapons refusing to switch back to melee if you try it while the animation plays( for example ogryn gauntlet), some weapons being useless because their niche is quickswapping for stagger(ogryn kickback which is 95% a copy of VT2 blunderbuss which was used this way),special/ranged enemy timings where you can react to the audiocue of the special spawn but it will still run into the room and fire before even the medium speed animations play,the overall clunkiness of it all and the fact it isn’t balancing anything because nobody is picking the shotgun,laspistols or the autopistol to get better switch times. Not a good system, makes the game feel worse while not adding anything to the gameplay, build decisions and tactical play, if anything it just further incentivizes the problem they were trying to avoid where people just stick to ranged 100% of the time shooting into hordes because they can’t stand the switch delay
I’m 100% with you. I care so much I figured out how to record gameplay (Not super hard but didn’t know before) how to edit it to just the correct part, and how to compress the file so I could upload it here.
It’s literally like a car with the wheels on top. You’ve seen cars, so you know the wheels have to be on the ground. If you tried to fudge that and say ‘it’s just a movie’ it would be silly…
I keep sharing this image, because it really is the best example. Everyone knows cars don’t work like this. EVERYONE. If you know even a little about guns, this is what is shoved in our face every 10 seconds.
This is exactly what happened, they slapped this mechanic on the system during the CBT to ‘balance’ the more used weapons but this isn’t balance it’s just stupid. But they couldn’t just have the animations on the best weapons or there wouldn’t be ‘balance’ so they all got them. So now ranged combat is bloated with constant bolt racking and switch flipping animations any time you do any animation or action/stagger and it’s annoying. And all the weapons that preformed best are still being used the most despite the “balance animations” cuz they still preform well, while all underused weapons are used even less cuz the animation spam makes them feel even worse. So in the end all the extra animations did was make ranged combat feel more clunky(and annoying) than it should. Racking the bolt before I can reload an empty mag is SO stupid and immersion breaking, most weapons give a low mag/dry mag sound or a visual for the energy weapons so the trained soldiers we are playing would know the weapon they are about to rack has no ammo in the mag when they are doing it.
Also all the staggers and tosses/throws/blasts where the animation forces the gun away but i didn’t switch weapons forcing me to rerack the gun again.
On the bright side, I think they’ve made improvements to the animations for the Kantrael, in exact line with what we were talking about in this post - so I am hopeful we might see the same improvements made where they are needed most - autoguns and bolters.