I noticed many people around Internet talking about “lack of progression and endgame”. So what are you really talking about? Vermintide 2 leveling was barier of entry, not progression. Same with V2 items and “leveling up” your items until you reach 300 power on the weapon. Then you grind for red weapon and you were done. This is where you reached max power. All that was left is getting good to challange cataclysm.
Remember when they added chaos wastes? Why was it so fun? It sidestepped that barrier of entry. A new player could actually play with their veteran friends and do things since game will help them scale in that mode. “progression” didn’t make Vermintide 2 better.
Now endgame. What was the “endgame” in Vermintide 2 again? Oh right. Just playing the game, same levels over and over, on highest difficulty you could handle and overcome what AI director throws at you.
So which of these is Darktide missing?
What Darktide is missing is more character class options=more perk options, as well as crafting system where we can mold our arsenal to our needs. This is what game is actually missing. This is what made V2 so much better then V1.
New levels and enemies will come with time like they did in V2.
And a question to anyone thinking there needs to be some kind of “endgame”, what exactly do you expect from a horde shooter endgame? Remember that this isn’t looter shooter so you won’t be getting any new loot from it. So what would you implement as endgame game loop?
There are a lot poeple new to the series and the same stuff came up with Vermintide 2 aswell. Missing progress and endgame is a no-go for a lot of players, that´s why the series will always stay niche. The most just can´t play games for its gameplay only or to beat a challenge maybe with friends.
There aren´t many options to offer an endgame in such games. They could:
Pick the current system, put a bit bad luck protection on top and let players grind their godrolls.
Redesign the current difficulties as level / learning ones and offer atleast 10 more as a longterm-challenge. (But it doesn´t suit the game and will split the playerbase too hard.)
My favorite would be like:
They could come with some form of “raids”, where the easy mode is on heresy and the hardmode on damnation.
Let´s say they pick a zone e.g. Khasma center and combine the 3 available missions into a big mission pathing-wise. There are bossfights or events with more mechanical depth at 1/3 , 2/3 and the end of the map. Of course they could offer a checkpoint after each major-fight with the group having like 3 tries overall and the difficulty will increase slightly over the time.
The rewards are high rolled weapons, even cosmetics and aquilas could´ve a dropchance like “first boss / event = 3 weapons, 2nd one 4 weapons + a handful aquilas, 3rd one 5 weapons and a chance for a rare cosmetic drop”.
And of course you´ll find crafting material everywhere, maybe even stuff like you collected in V2 for either achievements or to make use of them in other systems.
They could even introduce “colors” you can find to repaint your cosmetics. Would be highly welcome in my eyes as long as it stays somewhat in the universe and doesn´t come up with pink or other troll-mixtures.
Yeah sound like the typical PvE endgame, but why not? The gameplay is there as it is in e.g. Destiny… just make more use of it with longer missions, better rewards, mechanical depth and its challenge. The zones would be perfect and they could make sure to unlock the raids via playing and finishing the 3 missions in each zone atleast on heresy difficulty. (Damnation raid will be unlocked after finishing heresy ofc…)
It´ll offer an endgame and a better weapon-progression and character-customization with dozens of loot.
I have never heard of this vemordite… warmitide or whatever the game is called, so I have to ask:
Does “leveling up items” and “grinding” in that game also exclusively involve refreshing a list of items you don’t give a s t about every hour or so?
If not, then you have the answer to
End game is a scoreboard so you can try to outkill yourself game after game. Also end game is even more difficult content. Add modifiers that can stack and add new modifiers like tzeech twins and vanguard from vermintide 2.
You said it yourself, endgame is getting your reds, then purely working on playing the game. In darktide not being able to get weapons with the perks and blessings players want is making the whole experience needlessly frustrating.
More cosmetic and challenge penances that are based on playing the game in a way that it’s meant to be played and don’t render you a complete liability would be great.
These are just some of the endgames that compel me. Each of these games hold many genre traits in common with Darktide. Each of them does post-progression playtime better in one way or another.
The biggest issue is that there simply is no progression past reaching level 30. Sure, you can get more powerful items, but there is no process that translates the amount of missions you play to getting increasingly better gear. Your chance to get the perfect piece of gear is the exact same whether you’ve played for one hour at level 30 or for one hundred hours or one thousand hours. The only advantage playing more gives you is having checked the store more often.
The process of building your perfect character should be a lot more like the process of building your perfect warhammer army. It’s a slow and deliberate labor of love. You’re building miniatures, you’re painting, you’re playing, you’re tweaking army composition, expanding your arsenal, always going back to painting and building.
That’s what building a character should feel like. You’re upgrading your equipment, tweaking it in different ways, going into missions, getting more crafting resources, gaining more experience, always improving, always working on small upgrades, trying out new strategies.
Instead it feels like you’re just gambling with your time. Throw another five minutes of your life into this stupid gacha machine, then do it again in an hour.
How grinding out power worked in Vermintide2? You had to open loot boxes you got after mission to slowly get better weapons. Each one gave you a slightly more power then last up to a cap of 300. It wasn’t fun. Just tidious and made for horrible expirience for new player since your power was tied to what content you can do difficulty wise. And lower difficulties were trivial for veteran players while new player, even if skilled simply didn’t had the cleave values etc to handle higher difficulties. So Darktide system is actually better in that regard.
What isn’t better is current crafting, where in V2 you could craft the exact weapon you wanted and if you got red one, they automatically had max power and max rolls. Effectively ending gear progression.
We will either get “progression” that will extend gearing process in some artificial way, or get a proper system that let us tinker with our gear and items and max out multiple builds. But one will exclude the other. I rather be able to max my build and craft items I want to get the build done then endless loot farming loop with no purpose other then bing bing wahoo I got more new shiny stuff.
I’m all in for earning more cosmetics, but how many cosmetics do you really need? Too many games these days are ruined by people expecting from one game, something they seen in another, when said mechanic doesn’t improve the gameplay. If you want to collect mounts, skins etc, this isn’t that kind of game. Niche games are good because they fill their niche.
Wow!
So you are saying in that Verimite2 game, you got better weapons by playing the game?
This is actually a good concept IMHO.
Wish more games today implemented this kind of system.
The hive city setting is very cool. I would have really liked more emphasis on exploring the hive city and its layers in a way that immerse you into the setting. Currently everyone just is at a dead run to finish each mission. There is very little emphasis on even collecting the extras.
It would be nice to enjoy the levels instead of just running through them without paying any attention to anything.
Also as end game content being able to upgrade/purchase/progress in your weapons/gear/toon would be nice. The progression, upgrading, and weapons are pretty bland so far. Some classes (psyker) have just no options as the weapons are mostly not usable. The progression tree very limited and doesn’t synergize well with most of the weapons. There is maybe 2 classes that function because of these limitations to the psyker for instance.
In short the progression leads no where, the weapons are pretty bad, and there is nothing to look forward to doing after the first 20 hours of game play.
We can expect more in subject of maps in the future. Like in Vermintide2 they added hidden things in levels that unlocked for example last stand map (you had to complete 3 puzzles on 3 maps to get 3 runes, stuff was pretty obscure actually).
I know infinite gear/difficulty progression is terrible idea. It alienates and splits player base. People who play every few weeks or months would be separated from players that plays intensely until they burn out. This kind of games really shouldn’t be about grind. It’s about the game itself. You really don’t need some currency to collect or to get infinitely stronger to enjoy a game. MMO and looter shooter mechanics are built to waste your time and play on FOMO. Things that no one wants but kind of indirectly ask for.
This is why I started this thread. So people can re-examine what they actually ask for and how some things we just shouldn’t ask for. This isn’t going to be WH40k MMO and we shouldn’t try to make it into one. It’s not built for it. Maybe one day we will get one but let’s not break game with great potential by asking for things that are outside of the scope of the game.
This reminds me how in Elite Dangerous people asked for longest time for FPS mechanics, so called space legs. So you can walk instead of just sit in your space ship. Update that added this feature pretty much killed the game. Devs didn’t know what they were doing and had 0 shooter making expirience. Fatshark makes good horde killing games. Let’s not get outside of that scope.
I want to kill a bunch of stuff as a space wizard, a big mutant, a foaming at the mouth lunatic or a dude with a gun. If they want to toss a few items my way while I do it, I’ll take a look at them and see if they’ll add to my space murder party. I hope the new maps and modifiers won’t be awful to keep things interesting, for one the new modifiers and maps need to be way more accessible than they are now. Having to wait and maybe see them is the only glaring hole in my enjoyment right now.
Pretty sure FS already has some more harder difficulty planned as it says in the in-game there’s a phrase for “Damnation difficulty or higher” meaning they have another difficulty tier in the works.
My biggest desire from FS is that if they have a new difficulty please add more mechanics to the enemies. I’ve already made a post here titled, “Higher Difficulty, More enemy mechanics” for some suggestions. Please, please make more harder content!! As it stands it’s all too easy now.
VT2’s “mountain to climb” was portrait borders and unlockable skins when I last played (which was before Chaos Wastes).
I was so hyped for the ladder in Winds of Magic (Please try this again with DT, FS), but by that time the playerbase in my region had died due to the poorly received DLC so I never really had the chance to play it much outside of solo runs. At the end it basically just stonewalled me with insane difficulty spikes. I was gutted because that sort of gameplay is a dream for me.
I have like 20 perfectly rolled orange items I got literally just making something to grind with, and rerolling away from a garbage set maybe twice. I don’t get this at all.
Here you need like 8+ hours worth of in game grindables just for a shot at a weapon you can’t even change (besides 1 perk) assuming that weapon was ever in the store to begin with. And with good stats, since the average is closer to 330 than anything near the current level maximum. This is exactly what the problem is, and how most of the crafting rollout has been met with anger and distress that something they’re claiming is less RNG than VT2 is a literal lottery.
t about every hour or so?
