So because there’s a ‘easy’ option, we should just accept that the ‘high input’ ones have to physically hurt? That’s not variety, that’s just poor design which matching WH40k story background. Mods shouldn’t be the only solution, basically — not everyone can or wants to mod. And no one’s asking for every weapon to feel the same. We’re asking for the ‘high input’ part to come from gameplay decisions, not from how fast we can mash clicking without damaging our hands. There’s a difference between ‘high skill’ and 'high wear and tear.
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Yes, this is where we’re at now, I can’t be arsed to play the game so I’m gonna suggest adding cheat mode for all, as if the plethora of cheat mods haven’t reduced the game to a glorified whack-a-mole already for far too many.
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Confusing ‘cheating’ with ‘not wanting repetitive strain injury’ is a take, for sure. Wanting sensible controls isn’t a cheat mode — it’s called basic game design.
THX, bro, it do help
I notice you still haven’t made the distinction even though I made it for you so you can spare us the theatrics.
I’ll break it down for you further
Simple enough for you? Or do we need to enroll y’all in a college ethics course, we should be able to get a sizable group discount given how many of you there are.
Automating combos is basic game design now!?
Honestly…
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You’re mixing up automating a decision with automating the execution of a fixed pattern. A preset weapon combo isn’t a skill check. it’s more like a rhythm game.
If the game already tells you the sequence, holding one button to execute it cleanly is just an accessibility feature, not cheating. It’s the same logic as full-auto: reducing wear and tear without changing the outcome.
If you think manually repeating a fixed pattern is a ‘skill’, then you should also be against full-auto on any weapon, because by your logic, that’s just automating the trigger finger.
QFE:
I had to screen-snippet this for …uh…reasons.
I’m starting to think @domainking is trolling us. Bravo, you got me!
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???
You don’t use the same one combo in Darktide, what are you talking about? Weapons like Relic Blade have something like 8 different attack animations, the skill comes from knowing how to chain them into each other, switching between solo targets and hordes. Push attacks into heavies, light into heavies, alterating heavies and lights, which “fixed pattern” are we talking about here?
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You’re absolutely right about the complexity—Relic Blade does have a varied combo, and the skill is in choosing when to use which one. But you’re mistaking ‘decision making’ for ‘finger endurance.’
No one is asking for an AI that decides for you whether to fight a horde or not. We’re asking for a system where if I choose an effective melee combo, I don’t have to develop arthritis to execute it. The skill ceiling is in the choice of the pattern, not in the physical ability to click 10 times per second. Why do you want the barrier to entry to be physical pain instead of game knowledge?
You’re asking to automate tasks that have been considered mechanic-checks and skill-checks in games since games were a thing, and trying to lump it into the same category as simple spam-click automation to muddy the waters.
I don’t know how to dumb it down further or why you don’t see the distinction, but I have a pretty good idea what you mod_load_order.txt looks like.
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and yet you need an artificial tool to help you 
whats the point? wheres the personal achievement?
2 high dose chemos didn’t help my body muscle- or endurance wise.
logical conclusion:
I got no business stepping onto the mat for full contact bare knuckle anymore, guys would beat me to death and rightfully so.
got no business being in the meathead section of the gym anymore, days of lifting 60lbs dumbells for warmup are over for good.
so what’s the deal when fingers hurt doing a task they’re not suited for anymore?
I still bring my body to its limits, I just have to accept the new limits instead of demanding dialing stuff down or having artificial accessibility to it.
that 
aint my performance anymore, so how in the world could I take pride in its results?
like watching mma and say “see, I could beat that guys ass as well”
nope, not without brass knuckles anymore and even that’d be a stretch.
anything you fail to do purely on your own in an activity that’s either based on end results or the participation of others shouldn’t be helped by anything to get “on par”, rather you should adjust to your self maximum instead.
if that means fingers are shot, so be it.
I’ve been dragging a damn IV dispenser around for months and hardly lift 10% from what my max was.
no markus ruehl magic fairy come crashing down that door and fix me up with steroids and growth hormones either, bummer.
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That’s tough, and I show you respect.
But I think you’re confusing real physical limits with bad game design. You had to stop lifting because your body gave out—that’s reality. In Darktide, the difficulty isn’t real, like reality. The devs chose to make you spaming click instead of just pressing a single button.
You wouldn’t tell someone with slight arthritis to just quit gaming. You’d suggest a better playing style, a new controller or a key mapping style. That’s call adapting.
And I never say the game needs to be easier. But just want that they aren’t stuck in the 90s, some so-called hardcore game, and no one cares. Not a game just for some, pouring just in digital training, rather than seeking enjoyment.
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If you’re using mods or macros to qq cancel deimos to bypass the dps limitations of human body - that’s definition of cheating.
Swaps like this aren’t patched because normally humans can’t use it for 40 minutes of an intense h40 session. And also because fatshark is extremely slow with patching stuff like this.
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I think the key isn’t whether macros or some count as cheating, but why players feel the need to use them just to play the game comfortably. If a certain input method is physiologically unreasonable for humans, then the issue should be traced back to the design itself.
Fatshark might not fix it simply because few people are using it and it’s low priority—but that doesn’t make the mechanic reasonable or normal. We can’t say a normal person can’t sustain this, and then use the devs haven’t manipulated it as a shield. That’s precisely why the problem lies with the game experience, not the player.
Not to mention that some weapons actually have optimal operation methods, and repetitive operations are purely a problem.
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I can kinda agree on this one. A weapon where the most optimal combo is qq spam is poorly designed.
But if you’re abusing this flawed design to have a dps number that doubles duelling sword dps then you have an advantage that cannot be achieved through normal gameplay and it’s directly impacting events in game, like the actual time to kill unlike other info mods.
Other than qq swaps, all combos can be performed with the classic hardware based lmb autoclick and some muscle memory.
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Yea obviously, but what if the design was changed so this problem doesn’t exist to begin with? Vermintide 2 doesn’t have weapons with this kind of issue because all the weapons have considerable windup and/or endlag to their attacks so the difference between macro and normal play is nearly non-existent until you get a lot of atk speed where avoiding RSI becomes even more relevant. I think it’s insane that Fatshark made multiple weapons that have a nearly instant light attacks with zero endlag that you can also swap or block cancel at any point.
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Yes. If high input hurts you then high input shall hurt you. If you want to play recon go play it. There is one with the exact same fire rate of the las pistol, it is literally what you ask for except for the look of the weapon.
You already admitted the design is flawed. So we’re just arguing about how players cope with it. You say using macros to match that flawed ceiling is an advantage not achievable through normal gameplay.
But if normal gameplay means physically unsustainable input, then what exactly are we defending here?
A DPS ceiling that only exists if you’re willing to hurt yourself?
If the only way to hit optimal DPS without pain is a macro, **the problem isn’t the player using it. It’s the weapon problem, the weapon that demands it. **
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The design is flawed because it allows unfair advantage. We can cope with it by not using unfair advantage.
After reading the whole discussion it seems to me all you want is to slow down the game a bit and I concur. The game was more interesting without every class having a mandatory 10% melee attack speed node.
I started playing ogrin yesterday and I must say that feels very slow. Viable but slower that human classes. Maybe that is more to your liking?