Please nerf the 180 attack spin of Minotaur

The TLDR right into the title before I go into the big long pile of text explaining why I think this is a good idea.

I do like Beastmen as a faction now. Their units still have specific considerations I have to account for when fighting them and they can still wipe my legend runs when they overwhelm. But I feel like the Minotaur is still a bit too strong compared to the rest of the monsters. His multi attacks break stamina far more effectively than the others in a meta where stamina is super important. He runs really fast making it difficult to to melee DPS him because he is constantly out of range. And he round bout hits at a speed that even if you are trying to be ready for him to do it, is still really hard to account for.

I don’t want all of them nerfed, I do think each monster having its traits that make it unique is important. I just don’t like getting slammed for a bunch of damage because just a second ago I wasn’t the primary target and the amount of time in between that having not been the case, that being the case and the axes hurtling towards my delicate mortal flesh is in my opinion too low.

This attack in particular being too strong is an issue for several reasons. 1) it punishes players for trying to melee an enemy. 1b) An enemy that is already harder to hit than its peers because you have to spend a bunch of time chasing it. 2) It makes the enemy a larger threat to the off targets than the primary, which is a role already filled by all the other enemies. 3)If we do nerf something on it I feel like the 180 being as quick as it is, is also higly punishing to higher ping. If i know I’m the target I can at least try to compensate with good defensive maneuvering. Whereas if i just eat a bunch of damage from the enemy’s butt side I don’t know that it counts as challenging gameplay over frustrating gameplay. Anyway those are my thoughts.

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I agree, Minotaur should be tuned down a little bit… I hate how every its attack seems to do “splash damage”. I don’t know if it’s really a kind of area of effect or if the hitbox is bigger than the axe’s model.

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The “splash” probably just comes in from how it swings those axes around like a berserker going crazy.

Other bosses just fart over the area they want to hit or they slam down directly infront of them but the minotaur? He goes and swings here and there as he pleases.

Only exception to this i think is the troll who also does sweeping attacks but his are a lot slower…still hits my teammates though :<

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troll has some bizarre hitboxes too sometimes, I swear I’ve phased through his club/axe/hammer thing.

mino should definitely get some adjustments to how he chooses to attack, the 180s are pretty annoying. there’s counterplay, but it’s just “dodge after every swing he makes and be cautious” which is pretty dull.

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Yeah it would be nice if there was something more but on the other hand i find that the other bosses are too easy, like can easily be solo´d by most players who are comfortable on legend by attacking between those large and slow attacks.

Only the minotaur hits fast enough to create any kind of pressure in that regard so i am a bit conflicted as to the question of wanting it gone or not.

I’m not against monsters being harder, or buffing the other ones. Its the fact that when it switches aggro the time between that and it attacking a different target is too low to react to it. As someone said you can just assume and dodge after every single attack but I don’t think that’s good gameplay. Besides my understanding of Minotaurs is that even as the primary target its incredibly difficult to DPS them.

I don’t want the attack gone, I don’t want the damage lowered. I just want the turn speed to be reduced enough where at least on low ping there is a reasonable amount of time to react to the Minotaur’s change of target because right now it feels to me like there is no reasonable way to see an animation and account for it.

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I would say that boss slams are harder to dodge on higher ping than it is to playing defensively when you don’t have agro from Minotaur. Minotaurs also have more predictable patterns that give space to safely attack between. A chaos spawn is harder to dps when having agro compared to a Minotaur. But any of the bosses except maybe stormfiend can unpredictably change target and attack straight away even though they are supposed to do some animation for changing targets. Problem is that they can change targets again during that animation and it’s near impossible to tell. Minotaur doesn’t have an animation like this except when changing to a far away target where it readies a charge. If they nerf this, I would want them to fix the instant target changing of the other bosses as well.

Ok so I don’t think this is an issue with the minotaur, but with the game in general? It’s just that it becomes even more apparent on the minotaur because he has some very fast, high damaging attacks, but anyway, here goes.

I think the issue here is that enemies are beginning their attack animations while turning. This means that the minotaur will, for instance…
-Be fighting player A
-Switch aggro to player B
-Start turning around
-Immediately as soon as he starts turning around, start the ‘headbutt’ attack where he gores you with his horns
-Finish turning around
-Immediately when he finishes turning around, his wind-up for the headbutt ends, meaning you immediately get headbutted with no chance to react.

This wouldn’t be an issue if he turned around faster, or if he’d simply wait to finish turning around before starting a new attack, or, better yet:

If turning around when switching aggro to somoene behind him like this was done with a specific attack. As in, the specific move he does makes him turn around and smack the guy behind him.

Before if he turned around faster it’d look off and immersion breaking, and if he’d wait to finish turning before attacking it could be abused by making him switch aggro constantly and never get an attack off. (unless he has a minimum time timer to switch aggro, which would also fix that)

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The animations while turning is one of the things, which is as you said a game thing. The Minotaur isn’t actually faster than other bosses (like Chaos Spawn or Rat Ogre). It is still bugged though with the headbutt standing attack hitting twice if a player is too close. Then you also have the fact that the second attack of its lunging combo does 50/50, for a massive 100 if it manages to hit you. The 50/50 attack doesn’t actually break your block any faster, but it does hurt a lot more if it hits you (E.G. If you have 30% BCR, the first hit in his lunge combo does 1 stamina shield, the 50/50 will also do 1 stamina shield but as half/half for a total of 1).

Minotaur was actually given some adjustments back in patch 2.0.13:

The changes didn’t affect the overall timing or behavior (because they were in line with other bosses, which is good) but it did help to telegraph its attacks better to players.

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IDK whether they will change it or not, but the aggro changing isn’t actually random. It’s based upon proximity and doing damage. Also, he has a sort of aggro dump mechanic after the triple slam. So he will slam slam slam, heavy axe, headbutt, heavy axe. At least if dodged correctly. 90% of the time he either swaps target after the slam or the heavy axe. I actually can’t remember which one off the top of my head. He does have some serious hitbox issues. Weapons with short range on dwarf are very difficult to connect with while he is triple slamming and you are behind him. However, with some practice, you can pretty easily avoid taking damage off of the aggro swaps. This isn’t to say his targeting behavior shouldn’t be changed, I am just advising how to deal with it in the meantime. Also, if the player with boss aggro doesn’t know how to weave in headshots while kiting, aggro swapping will occur much more frequently. However, that is the true of every monster.

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there’s a particular angle behind one of his legs that I was actually completely unable to hit him from with some weapons, it’s incredibly annoying. I feel like it’s even worse in some animations, though I couldn’t figure out a way to test that.

his aggro swap is a pretty big issue, but I think he’s got a lot of other janky stuff that needs to be worked out before he’ll feel good even with a more reasonable animation.

@LordGiggles
For that one it would be nice if he got 2 hitboxes .
One for meele that should be a bit bigger so hits connect better even when he’s leaning forward for some attacks and you’re behind him ,the current one for ranged attacks so the projectiles are not sticking in the air if you would hit that box… just a thought on that dont know how doable this is…

it would definitely be nice, though I’ve seen some games just have big ranged hitboxes that avoid the floating arrow issue by having the projectile redirect into the actual model after hitting. looks a bit silly, but it’s better than alternatives.

I’d much rather a small visual weirdness than leaving mino as hard to hit with some weapons as he is now.

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