Please don't nerf pickaxe

[Ralendil]

@MadMartigan

You think modders get to have a say on difficulty when the majority of players will never be able to experience the game with those mods. You’re the one policing and projecting here, not me.

Ok here count how many times I have said that everybody can voice his opinion:

@Ralendil

And don’t try to put words in my mouth that I did not say. Everybody has the right to voice their opinion, and even the ones with who I don’t agree.,.
Even Dexta has this right. That has always been my position, and I continue to believe that.
However, if what you say is based on facts, and that doesn’t only come from your imagination, that’s better.

@Ralendil

Everybody has a right to voice any opinion if they respect others. You can disagree with an other member. You can agree with someone else. You have even the right to change your opinion when discussing something.

@Ralendil

If you read what I say, I do not point players that use mods or not…
Even the console player has the right to voice an opinion.
What I don’t like is users that try to play the police.

Now, let’s see how many times you have said that players that use mod have no right to voice their opinions:

@MadMartigan

Look I don’t care if you use mods. Use all the mods you want BUT please do not make any comments on balance or difficulty unless you have played a reasonable amount of time in the current build with no gameplay mods active.

@MadMartigan

Perhaps just read what I actually said instead of getting instantly hoity and defensive like many a mod user on these forums. If anyone even utters the word ‘mod’ with a hint of criticism then it unlocks 20 metric tonnes of mod-user emotion because apparently any criticism means “bAn aLl mOdS” which, clearly, it doesn’t.

@MadMartigan

Look I don’t care if you use mods. Use all the mods you want BUT please do not make any comments on balance or difficulty unless you have played a reasonable amount of time in the current build with no gameplay mods active.

If anyone deems this comment as unreasonable then I’m truly lost for words.

@MadMartigan

I’m not asking for mods to be banned. I just want players to be using the intended vanilla experience in order to make judgements on balance and difficulty. That’s all. Not a huge ask. Play for a week without any mods and if it’s still too easy then at least we know it’s based on the level playing field.

@MadMartigan

And I’ll say it for a 3rd damn time. Yes it is fair for mods to be switched off temporarily so that you can make a proper untainted judgement on difficulty. Then turn your mods back on.

@MadMartigan

My point, made many times, is that I believe someone using no gameplay mods, is able to make a valid judgement on difficulty or balancing. So yes, if you don’t use gameplay mods but want changes then thats entirely valid imo. Whether we agree on changes is another matter.

---

Again… we don’t speak about difficulty. We talk about a weapon, the pickaxe.
I still wait one mod that changes the power of a melee weapon… I clearly don’t see any mod that would change the balance of weapons and that would forbid a player that uses mods to voice his opinion about the balance between… let’s say a pickaxe and a latrine shovel.

I can agree that it changes the difficulty of the game, and believe me the ALT+F4 fix (if correctly done) will change it more than the mods, but again… we don’t talk about that. We talk about weapon balance.
I can use all mods I want, it won’t change the balance between 2 weapons…

[Index]

@CobaltNinja

sheer volume of enemies to drown players, and it results in a frantic game with no breaks that’s mentally exhausting to play.

fair enough, but keep in mind theres players, me included that thrive on such challenges.

on a good day, enough sleep, warmed up and enough energy drinks to give an elephant a heart attack i’m “in the zone” again like i’m 18 on a quake 3 tournament.

and its the best feeling in the world.

at these moments i wanna crank it up to 11

macho it out, breaking each others ribs until his organs pop.

its quite the opposite of exhaustion for me, its telling me i’m improving and looking to keep that pressure constant.

i mean in good times i was going through tournaments for 40 hours straight and then collapsed into my sleeping bag with the biggest grin you could imagine.

still remember the sports hall they rented for the lanparty. got multiple tinnitus on both ears and fell asleep under speakers blasting a ripped version of the first resident evil movie.
this level of tired

those times are sadly gone, but my inner demand isnt getting any smaller and hopefully never will.

so i’m all for options, both directions up or down as long as things stay available.

people want a lesser crowded but spongier mode like elite resistance they had a year back, go for it.

as long as i can fire myself into overdrive and forget about the shitty world, i’m fine.

[Zoralink]

@gpkgpk

These are objective facts, not in contention by anyone being honest, and @MadMartigan is correct in stating that they alter the fairness hen applying feedback.

The thing is, it was irrelevant and came out of left field and is just trying to stir the pot.

I even agree that I think things like the health bar mod toe the line too hard and don’t use them. Slinging incredibly thinly veiled insults at me and implying I’m someone relying on the ‘gameplay’ mods (still a super vague term) despite me actively saying I don’t, weirdly you even liked this post just because I was disagreeing with someone on bringing it up in this topic is childish. Bonus points that you’re encouraging blocking me just to make this even more of an echo chamber.

That doesn’t change that it wasn’t a relevant part of the discussion just because he/you has an issue with them. Look how horrendously off the track this topic has gotten.

[Ralendil]

@Yagami

Frankly I’d be shocked if they nerfed the pickaxe in any way. The rest of his weapons are just in such a rough state that the picks are just blowing them away. It’s a shame to because I cut my teeth on Ogryn using the mk 1 club. I’d like to see it on par with the pick.

As I said, I don’t know if pickaxes are too strong compared to what other classes have, but what I am sure is that this weapon is the strongest of the ogryn melee arsenal.
It can kill carapace easily, has a good cleave, is great at dealinbg with horde, elites, specialists…

But it has a big drawback. It is terribly slow.
However, from my perspective, I will always favor this weapon. Cause when I try to put all options in balance, I really think that the pickaxe, and specifically the karsolas, will do better.
And I see a lot of ogryns that think the same, as we tend to see more pickaxes than other weapons.
As I said earlier, I am not sure of the 2 other pickaxes. But clearly, Pickaxes (and specifically the Karsolas) is, that’s my opinion, above the others Ogryns weapons.

Do I call for a nerf? I let Fatshark decides what is good for the class. But sure, I call for balance. I want to get a power maul (this one is weak, that I am sure) enough good to hesitate between it and the pickaxe (just an example).

[Yagami]

I’d probably put the pickaxes in the same general area as all the other “good” weapons in the other classes not including outliers most people agree is too strong. In my ‘just now unprofessional as heck’ testing I’m getting like 5 or 6 taps with 25% carapace and Slaughterer stacks (intentionally not building thrust stacks) without anything in the talent tree.

Once you get Heavy Hitter rolling that goes down to 2 or 3 (if bleed doesnt kill it) and that isn’t any faster than the dueling or power sword. Start adding Thrust you’re probably gonna start 1 shotting sooner (esp with Heavy Hitter/Slaughterer stacks built) and thats on top of the 10% from the special action if thats how you’re gonna chain it. Personally I don’t have the kahunas to run Crunch!, I heard you have to let it go off on its own and thats way too slow.

Without doing a bunch of actual testing I think this is as anti-armor as it is because of how I’ve built into it, and also the nature of the weapon a little. It’s a heavy metal pick swung by a giant so it should be punching armor. I think I could agree with you on the horde clear if the 2nd Karsolas heavy wasnt as slow as it is or it had a better angle. I am far from the Godgryn. I only play normal damnation and “melee only” maelstroms. I take hits inbetween my heavys all the time, I’ll just miss because that angle is a little weird, and countless other skill issues.

Everything I said could be straight up wrong from a numbers perspective though, I didn’t spend long in the psykhanium. You, however, are certainly not wrong when you say the pickaxes (karsolas specifically) are Ogryns best weapon, but I think its only because its the only Ogryn weapon thats as good as the runt weapons.

[Skaleek]

I don’t think its the pickaxe thats gonna eat the nerf. I think its the talent that makes everything bleed on heavies. I think they may reduce the number of stacks or something. shrug

Been playing a lot of Ogryn lately. I started on the pickaxe. Boy was that a mistake. After doing the rest of the melee weapons the pickaxe is just leaps and bounds more fun. I really do believe a lot of the ogryn melee (and ranged weapons) need some work.

But the talents are so strong.

[gpkgpk]

@Skaleek

I think they may reduce the number of stacks or something. shrug

They already nerfed this in the past, and more recently DR from nearby bleeders, and DR node, and FNP, and staggers…

Bleed (dot) kills also don’t count as melee kills so no toughness on kills or other interactions (anymore). I’m still not convinced a weapon causing dot shouldn’t count as a kill type from said weapon type (made penance a PITA).

Heavy bleeds are as iconic to the ogryn as staggers once were, nerf bleeds more and everything but gunlugger gets a sizable nerf.

The pickaxe is the one of the only weapons that’s in a relatively good place maybe because it came after most of the nerfs, so it escaped relatively unscathed. Ogryn is the only class that’s gotten many somewhat recent nerfs, and more in the past, and the pick was the only new present that wasn’t an itchy pair of socks, if anything it should be a model for the rest of the arsenal.

[GrendylsPriest]

Good shout on Elite Resistance, miss that modifier!

[Index]

they took it off again so fast i couldnt even test it under any modifiers that mattered

that what i mean by keep options.
sure, theres fewer people playing that setting but what downside was there keeping it active?

those not liking can just choose not to play it.

lile i’m not “lost” to lower difficulty playerbase, i’d never play it anyways

[Zoralink]

@Index

lile i’m not “lost” to lower difficulty playerbase, i’d never play it anyways

Honestly with how easy it is to reach instant deletion potential for most enemies I’m not sure how much I’d consider that a lower difficulty. (In concept, at least, I didn’t even get to play elite resistance)

Personally I find enemy spam just kind of annoying in the long run, I’d much rather feel more threatened by individual enemies than seeing them just implode because the players looked at them for more than a tenth of a second. (Power creep go brrr)

[Index]

was referring to simple damnation, heresy etc.

counter argument was getting the playerbase to split up if there were more option.

that option 3 (to not play at all) was a thing didnt occur to people in that argument it seemed.

i’m not back into the lower stuff if the fun ones seize to be available was the notion I tried to explain.

like “we shouldnt have more map/maelstrom options it divides the playerbase”

right now, nothing on the menu i like, i divide myself to stalker 2, space marine 2 or modded new vegas until timer runs off and hopefully something fun is back on.

not filling any D IV IX G lobbies anyways

[Garfielf]

@Ralendil

As I said, I don’t know if pickaxes are too strong compared to what other classes have

This is the hilarious part, it isn’t. Dueling Sword is game breakingly good, with humie knife almost is as good just due to sheer added mobility and kiting potential. Even putting those aside, combat axe is a swiss army knife of killing anything quick without sacrificing defensive capability.

[MarxistDictator]

yeah but knife and dueling are on another level from the rest of the game. try using an AP weapon that has logical shortcomings and then go back to either of those. or a horde melee that is lacking on armor. the sprint speed bonus was cute but totally needs to be brought down to like +5% movespeed at best.

[GrendylsPriest]

Hows Stalker 2 running on your rig? Heard its a beast to run

[GrendylsPriest]

Whats the best CAxe mark? Im using Antax but im not sure if its the best mark

[GrendylsPriest]

I have a very very strong feeling DS will be nerfed on Tuesday

[Pirx]

rashad as it has a finesse modifier. antax has cleave instead.

[Index]

so-so

first for my setup :
i7 13700k
rtx 4080
32gb ram
samsung m2 ssd 980 pro

usually i´d have an eye on my gpu temp since i like to keep it below 70° at all times.
oddly enough the CPU is whats giving me weird signals, creating the shaders at the start of the game cooks my water cooler with 90° at a time while cpu loadout indicates somewhere around 40-50%

all the while my gpu is dwiddling its thumbs at 43-50°

might be a a.i thing, for all i know everytime my cpu fan spins up frantically enemies spawn in the near vincinity.
if it wasnt so taxing on my cooling id laugh having a free warning canary chirping at the sign of danger.

BUT its not only stalker 2 that´s doing this kinda stuff.
space marine 2 is at it as well with cpu water cooling spinning to its utter max until the first menu window.
apart from one section in “decapitation” map it stays within 60-65°, at boot i get 92° !!

frame wise stalker 2 is around 100-ish. unoptimized for sure since larger, more complex areas seem to go without a hitch whereas cramped little cells spin my cooling fan and tank the framerate with nothing really going on.

oh and villages … where lotsa a.i comes together… cooking time.
consoles got a whooping 6 seconds loading screen with literally 0 FPS, while i remain above 80 something, my cpu cooling screams briefly until every peep has been accounted for.

gameplay wise its good, not great, not something that keeps me hooked like fallout.
but i knew that before hand and knew what kinda art and design setting i get myself into.

there´s “good” depressing like L.A and other amercian pop art cities in ruins with half naked cannibalistc marauders.
and there´s “bad” depressing like everything “eastern” with grey and green concrete buildings and that trademark round welded metal window “thing” that prevents breackins.

but atmosphere´s thick and the games immersive.
maybe besides one thing “ukranian floor sausage”.
nothing screams immersive as droping your helmet in the middle of a radiactive hot zone cause hunger, pick up a naked sausage from a puddle of god knows what muck and take a healthy bite…

[Lethaface]

I dont use watercooling, but 92 booting up a game seems a bit worrisome. I play SM2 on my 7700K and 3080 and sure aint going to 92 degrees, even with all the dust that CPU fan has probably inhaled since 2017 lol.

Is your watercooler setup large enough for your cpu?

[Ralendil]

Depend of the gen…
An intel 14th gen goes up to 100° celsius when gaming.

With the new gen (arrow lake), my processor is, when running darktide, at less than 50° celsius.