Overlooked ogryn talent tree problem. Needs swapping around

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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The talents in the beginning of the ogryn tree are in weird anti-synergistic spots and should be swapped around.

Lynchpin and The Best Defense should have their locations swapped. It makes no sense that Furious is locked behind a coherency regen talent. The Best Defence and Furious are both designed around being surrounded in melee so it only makes sense that they are connected. Lynchpin being below Steady grip and Heavyweight makes much more sense since neither talent requires you to be in melee where coherency regen can’t even function.

Dedicated Practice and Towering Presence should also have their locations swapped. Having weapon swap speed in the middle of and blocking coherency related talents instead of the coherency radius talent doesn’t fit. Having the swap speed right below a bracing talent also makes sense since you want to swap weapons and brace as soon as possible. Dedicated Practice could also use a numbers buff. 20% swap speed compared to the veterans recently buffed 50% swap speed is painfully less impactful.

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And while you’re at it (you = the devs), please make Big Boom available for Indomitable builds again.

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Since the last patch, Ogryn tree is now the most bloated and restricted tree.

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I agree. Big Boom and Fire Away are necessary talents for Big box of hurt. Moving them under the grenade tree would also be a good

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Toughest! also didn’t get buffed to match the keystone and it’s a weak effect anyways.

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Ogryn already has ridiculous melee damage for clear and armor, so having even more (but very suboptimal) damage in the form of furious behind a node nobody is really going to want serves two purposes: makes it undesirable unless you’re leveling and need both of those things, and disincentivises optimising damage to the nth degree when you really need to be taking a bit of damage reduction instead.

The reason the best defence and smash em are where they are is so that ogryn’s two best nodes are not 100% completely and utterly free. You have to either take heavyweight or lynchpin and steadygrip in order to get the most toughness regeneration on your build. Moving the best defence there makes it possible to only spend two nodes to get full toughness regen on every melee hit and ignore any and all nodes up top. That’s an incredible buff to the ogryn that is already extremely powerful.

Dedicated practice is at 20% because the heavy stubber is damn near the best special sniping weapon in the game, and having 50% swap speed would turn the ogryn into the best at literally everything in the game. It’s balanced that way so that if you use the special sniping options on the ogryn, you have to pick and choose your moment instead of being able to instantly deal with any number of special targets without having to sacrifice time in melee, adjust your positioning, or account for weapon swap at all. Again, an incredible buff to an already incredibly powerful class.

Having that node is at the bottom forces a choice - do you want extra cooldown reduction, or quicker access to no hurting friends, which is one of the ogryn’s best melee nodes, in which case you get weapon swap speed which is actually useful instead of coherency bonus. It’s actually in a good spot there, because it requires planning to get on a build that utilises weapon swap buffs, and provides a small utility to melee focused builds that want to take other melee nodes at the bottom of the tree without feeling completely underpowered and out of place like a coherency bonus would.

I think this is mostly from the point of view of what feels like it should be grouped together as though that’s the entire consideration for the ogryn’s tree, without much consideration as to the power of these buffs, or in some cases why a node is where it is.

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Ogryn’s damage talents got an overall net nerf recently. Maybe it’s still too high, but that could be said about all the characters at this point.

I doubt many people would only take 2 passives in the starting section if things were swapped around. Heavyweight is just good. People would also finally consider taking furious if it wasn’t blocked by a talent it can’t function with.

I can see dedicated practice being on the OP side if it was increased all the way to 50%, yeah. Weapon swap speed being useful for Feel No Pain ogryns is also completely dependent on your ranged weapon though.

I’d argue 75% coherency range is pretty useful for consistency with auras and talents, both ogryn and ally. +75% is just big enough to always be at 4 coherency in most spread out fights without risking being too grouped up for enemy AoE sources. I tend to view coherency perks similar to ‘on dodge’ perks. They aren’t as consistent as most players think they are. Coherency range talents remove that inconsistency. If you could get a talent that made ALL ‘on dodge’ effects last 75% longer would you? I know I would if I had multiple perks.

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I don’t think singling out nodes is a great strategy for balance though tbh.

Ogryn doesn’t have any gold toughness ability.

Ogryn has no skills to 1 shot monstrosities like the other classes (even DH get deleted in 1 or 2 hits by other classes which I always find crazy).

Ogryn doesn’t have any grenades that even remotely compare to Vet kraks. Nuke is joke and only seems to kill the enemies that would have been easy to dispatch with melee but leaves behind crushers, bullwarks etc - still with significant hp remaining, even at the centre of the blast. insane, especially as he only gets 1 and it doesn’t regen.

Ogryn doesn’t have any wide/far cone attacks the melt everything like Psycher or flamer.

Ogryn doesn’t really have the capacity to have excellent ranged and melee on the tree…kinda gotta pick either ranged or melee to get the skills required for high difficulty games.

Ogryn doesn’t have stamina regens/buffs like the other classes, and dodge/stamina are really always the true meta in DT. He should get a solid stamina/dodge buff on taunt imo.

Ogryn doesn’t have a DS. (teeny tiny magic wand that disappears heavily armoured enemies).

Ogryn Paul takes 1 earth cycle to charge, another to swing, then 64 years to recharge. Psycher (or vet kraks) has melted everything on screen before you make contact with your swing so the charge times out anyway. It doesn’t even 1 shot crushers and the AOE special only staggers and doesn’t damage as far as im aware.

Ogryn doesn’t have any means to stun-lock crowds of enemies like Arbites mines or zealot chorus, or psycher smite etc.

So yeah…

I ‘d love to see some stats as I believe Ogryn doesn’t put anywhere near as much dmg out as the other classes, despite being called OP in the forums. Seems the role of ogryn is to stagger as much as possible. The only other role is ranged bombardment but I never choose a gungryn as I don’t want to suck up the precious rare hens-teeth ammo. I would say horde clearing but the psycher blue flame insta-melts hordes in 1 second and seems to have no cooldown so I barely get to swing into a horde anyway.

So yeah, how anyone can call him OP compared to the other classes is beyond me.

Seen that video of the Psycher melting like 200 Maulers with smite in seconds?

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Ogryn can stunlock daemonhosts with 0 talents, can stun lock chaos spawns with the right build/ with rocks, can ignore hordes with pushes/dodges. and can taunt and aggro probably 80% of an entire missions’ enemies with the go again modifier on taunt. If youre good at ogryn, ogryn is overpowered, if you’re bad at ogryn, ogryn is strong.

Also i have seen the video of the psyker melt a bunch of maulers in seconds, but have you seen this video?

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You can say this about every class now. More so, in fact.

That trapper video is nonsense, no? They’re all occupying the same spot and not attacking so what’s the point of it?

I’m clearly not saying ogryn is devoid of useful skills. I love ogryn and have played him for at least 1k hours alone. I’m saying the other classes are more OP and have actual cheatcode skills, whereas ogryn doesn’t. Ogryn, as I’ve mentioned above, is just less OP than the other classes and thus I feel calling the class out as OP is disingenuous.

I said crowds. Not single enemies. Besides, he might be able to stun lock it but doing barely any damage and requires full-time attack. Other classes just donk it on the head and 1 or 2 shot the thing!

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You’re right. In a vacuum. But as it is, to make an Ogryn build, you have no talent points to spare at any time and this is one of those “nice to have” talents.

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What is this supposed to prove?

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other classes can 1 shot daemonhosts with 0 talents? no way i didnt know that, thats awesome, please show me how

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whatever you want it to?

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Cool, so I want it to mean you’re wrong and I’m right.

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oh but that video shows you having talents, thats not it sorry. Please try again and this time with 0 talents :+1:

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im wrong about what? and what are you right about?

are you ok? i feel like you’ve somehow tried to win an argument that hasnt happened?

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Keep moving the goalposts.

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Read back.