There often is the idear that weapons like flamers or bolters can stay very powerful by being balanced ammong other things by their ammo consumtion/ammo pick up rate.
Nerfing a weapon that way often though is more a nerf to the team as to the weapon.
Users of those weapons will now simply pick up more of the ammo leaving less for the team.
If instead those weapons would need to pick up special ammo, nerfing their ammo consumtion would only affect them.
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Do you play on damnation?
Because on damnation I have never had a team fully run out of ammo except once when I got bogged down and at the very end.
You just keep moving forward and pull melee to kill small trash and you will never run out.
If you try and hold position you just end up with every one running low.
What I think is weapons should be balanced carefully based on how much dps they can out put and the max ammo pool and picked up ammo is unrelated.
Like the helbore 2 will never run out of ammo if you keep moving while the helbore 3 is almost alway in need of more.
Flamer is a trash weapon, it should be nerfed so it’s obviously trash therefore nobody uses it except the roleplayers, not nerf because it’s overpowered. It actually has plenty of ammo if people just learned to tap left mouse button(to apply burn stacks, which is where most of its damage comes from, the dps is urine-poor overall anyway) instead of hold it down for braced firing…
Boltgun isn’t even close to as unbalanced as powersword. Because the reload is extra long(making its monster dps actually inline with other ranged weapons that have good dps + decent reload speed), the refire rate is poor, it’s quite bad against dogs(small hitbox, big spread on fullauto, damage isn’t great either), and it actually can do less damage per shot than mk12 kantrael lasgun if you headshot. Only thing weird about it is the amount of effective dodges it can get, which is 4. Most of boltgun gameplay is spent on managing reload and dodging, or just meleeing everything because of how long it takes to pull out the weapon + low ammocap.
The problem is those other guns, like revolver and shotgun, having lower ammo(lol) than boltgun. What’s supposed to be more flexible than boltgun gets bogged down by low ammo and very long reload(due to loading single round/shell).
The real issue is people grabbing ammo(intentionally or accidentally) that overfills and wastes a ton of ammo that others could have used. (you can get the scoreboard mod that tells you who’s the main culprit to everyone not having enough ammo)
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@Bababoofa
My Veteran is the only character on level 30 and so far i have never had any ammo problems with him but I also havent used the bolter on higher difficulties.
Only had a few rounds on damnation.
But thats not really what i wanna discuss about.
Overall i like the idear of ammo being one factor to balance weapons around.
Certain weapons having very high DPS and overall usefullness but needing to be used very sparingly is something i personaly like. But with all weapons using the same ammo there is currently no way to balance weapons around that.
@ComradeHX
I don’t really wanna discuss if something is overpowered right now or not. This is more about, should ammo be an balancing factor or not.
I think it would be more interresting that way. There are only so many ways to get different weapons by just balancing them around there DPS. I think we can get more variety by balancing weapons additionally around there ammo consumption.
Ive had this thought as well. If we had light, medium and heavy ammo types or something akin to it we might resolve problem but we assert another; pointless ammo spawns that may not serve anyone.
This would lead to the same complaints as empt crates did, except now its “i have no ammo!!!”
This is why scoreboards arent toxic and bullying toxic play by pointing to scoreboards promotes positive dynamics in team games.
There are plenty of balancing factors beside dps.
Like armor penetration, equip time, reload time…etc.
Ammo is just one of many factors, and it shouldn’t be used too liberally(shotgun and revolver already suck because of it).
I don’t think that’s true outside of maybe toxic players. Adapting the playstyle based on team setup is pretty okay for sure.
Funneling ammo to certain players is a thing, but nerfing ammo would impact the user to think more carefully about when to use it. Events can be big ammo dumps, especially if things go sour.
BTW I would probably halve all available ammo on all weapons and make ammo attributes much more powerful, maybe except for weapons that have no ammo stat. Bolter would only survive maybe -1 clip before it would get annoyingly low when running it on a zealot (and it’s already a pretty bad pick), and the revolver has already low ammo.
Didn’t know people were even complaining about empty boxes.
You could make it that the amount of special ammo spawns depend on how many players bring special weapons into the mission.
I mean as long as we limit the ammo supply for the players people will always complain about not having enough ammo.
Totally agree that there are a lot of different other balancing factors.
But I think that if we want ammo consumption to be one additional factor then we kinda have to add one special ammunition type.
In my experience toxic players are quite rare. Usually its not them simply taking the ammo but the rest of the team giving it to them.
If I see my flamer guy in my team running low I will usually try to leave ammo for him even if that means im also running low, simply because I know how important his role is.
What I have noticed is that usually nobody is running low on ammo or everybody does.
might be the situation is actually better on damnation or do you have a team to play with? me i pug heresy and its wall to wall of heavy stubba ogres and flamer zealots that only know melee wepons as the things that the enemy use to knock them the F out as they back up and reload.
its a ninja fest out there and they always have yellow red ammo.
Sing it brother! Amen!
No, adding another ammo is like adding more of those grenade supplies that people often don’t have use for.
If I see my flamer guy in my team running low I will usually try to leave ammo for him even if that means im also running low, simply because I know how important his role is.
flamer really isn’t that important(flamer excels at what everyone already should do well - with melee weapon), if he ran out of ammo on anything except boss/monsters(s, as in two monsters back to back) you shouldn’t give him more - he’s using flamer wrong.
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