not that i can say so, but the last to missions with MK XV the Ragers didnt get staggerad also, no matter if light or heavy.
its like i understand it also. well not bad while clearing hordes at all.
It does not, it only gives power, they said it was changed to give power in the class overhaul (but was giving 3 times the amount it was supposed to, which was later fixed) but the description still says damage.
it lets you cleave 4 crushers on crit so that’s something that might be valuable to some.
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There is no such thing as cleave cap, not to my knowledge at least.
I am able to damage cleave more than 4 targets in psykhanium.
I believe that cleave system is identical to vermintide:
2 values and 3 mass modifiers determines cleave of weapons attacks. Those values and modifiers may vary for different attacks.
Damage cleave determines how much targets you can damage.
Stagger cleave determines how much targets you can stagger.
The values itself represents total amount of mass you can cleave through.
Each enemy have its own mass value, the bigger, the heavier.
Mass modifiers reduces enemy mass by some %, depending on armor type.
Unfortunately we don’t have data on cleave related values in convenient form right now.
So it hard to compare weapons cleave wise.
Besides damage and stagger, high cleave can increase ult gen from “Invocation of death” for quite a bit.
I am able to cleave around 20 pox walkers with my evis. One such hit can generate 30 secs of ultimate.
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Go to eviscerator and see that the lights do 0 damage to target 5 and on, what you see is enemies staggering from your hits, they do not bleed on crit unless the swing damages them. You do get a lot ult back from crits with invocation of death because the crit still affects stagger so every enemy staggered is still considered crit. There is no separation of stagger cleave and damage cleave like vermintide had. There is only cleave which to my knowledge is always how much mass of enemies you can stagger but the damage profile of the attack is what limits damage cleave.
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I wish I knew why they made that design decision. It just feels wrong that cleave blessings allow you to hit more enemies but not do any damage to them.
Wierd. It’s true for lights but not for mk II first heavy, it seems to be receiving proper cleave increase.
Conceptually, it’s not an unreasonable way to balance things that have the capacity to hit large numbers of enemies. The caps that were selected though… some were truly bizarre.
I’d be more interested in why they gave some low-cleave weapons no limit on the number of targets they could damage 
The answer is probably “Brutal Momentum”, but that didn’t hold true for things like the Power Maul or Slab Shield (which lacked the target cap to do anything useful with BM)
Fatshark being Fatshark, I guess!
That’s interesting, that a non-damaging hit (from a critical strike) counts towards Invocation of Death 
I’d asked about that in the past - while the in-game description has separate Cleave Distribution values for damage, the devs chose to scrap it and use a singular value for both. I’ll see if I can dig up the thread.
EDIT: This bug report thread is where one of the devs added some explanation - Crucis Mk II Thunder Hammer Cannot Cleave
The breakpoint calculator is a far simpler way to see the figures*, but it’s all available in the lua source
For example, the Eviscerator; each section (beginning with { and closing with }) represents the weapon’s properties versus the Nth target in a hit; first 4 sections have a non-zero value in the attack fields, then it drops to 0 and subsequentlly no_damage (I don’t know what the difference between 0 and no_damage is)
*The breakpoint calculator doesn’t show cleave damage for sticky chain weapon attacks. I don’t know if there’s a specific reason for that; it’s probably for simplicity more than anything, since the rip/saw damage can happen on any target (depending on your cleave)
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“mystery” solved
So I replaced Savage Sweep by Rampage on my Eviscerator and did not notice much change on how many critical hits I’ve dealt. But it did feel stronger. So screw cleave blessings.
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I probably overthought it, but I didn’t like rampage since the situations I feel like I need to kill these faster, almost never involve 3 or more enemies I can hit
You probably did overthink it - any mixed horde encounter should provide enemies to trigger the buff and enemies who have large enough health pools to put the buff to use.
Even in a regular horde, your damage drops off substantially when cleaving (against unarmored, you do 247 → 115 → 99 → 66; Infested is 20% higher) so the extra Power should make a solid difference in your horde clear.
Savage Sweep shouldn’t affect your crit in any way, unless you mean how many Invocation of Death procs you’re seeing as a result of your crits?
And it’s worth noting that Rampage is still enhancing your cleave (since power gives cleave/damage/stagger) - it’s comparatively small compared to Savage Sweep, but it’s still a reasonable amount since the weapon naturally has high cleave
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I haven’t tested it or anything but rampage is a +power blessing so it adds cleave and the heavy chainswords have high base cleave so it’s prolly pretty fine.
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New shovel specials pokes use the damage_types.sawing too, seems it’s there to categorize any sticky part of attacks (like on old chainaxe lights), there’s extra stuff per weapon ofc.
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Personally prefer the II, but I also wouldn’t consider the XV a trap. Its simple combos are still seriously effective with higher innate cleave lights and straight up deadlier heavies. Frankly it just comes down to personal preference I think, even with the variety of information provided by the others pointing out damage differences and such.
To me, it’s just way too slow even once the attack speed buffs kick in, and the simple move set becomes grating even after half the mission.
Yes, that is what I meant. I should have been clearer.
No idea on the specs, but the new one is definitely a lot more straightforward to use. A real ‘ungabunga left click goes brrr’ weapon for most purposes. Very little effort required to get big value out of it.
If it had more mobility it’d be straight up busted.
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incorrect assumption. i stream this game everyday at a very aggressive pace w/ pubs. generally 22-30 min maelstroms and w/ new mark evis when i do use it, its always 800+ kills and about 1M damage. if u really care enough, i can probably make a highlight or something. legitamely averages that number
actually not gonna do that its too much work. jus skimming through for evis gameplay and i found this. its funny cause ppl ask on twitch whats the strongest this, or whats OP that. this comes up alot and i say oh this weapon averages this and they’re like really. im like here, watch this. same w/ plasma. 1 million damage ranged average weapon
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You literally posted a run with less than 900k total damage. Unless you mean overkill damage which we all know nobody cares about. A 87.56% increase over the next highest damage dealt is very good, but nothing out of this world. 35 minutes isn’t glacial, but it’s also not fast. I would hope your average 4 man is faster than that.
So, like I originally said, hyperbole. Not saying you’re bad, but you were exaggerating.
Lastly, you should switch to overproof’s scoreboard mod. The original version is less accurate and obviously much less detailed.
Maelstrom BIIV. Larger total damage (this mod is more accurate, old version values are typically inflated) and much bigger gap. Heavy Sword VII and Heavy Braced Autogun. While I do think this combo is very strong, it would be disingenuous to say this kind of result is typical because A: this run took 37 minutes which is way too long, and B, I double clutched this run which distorts the numbers while I’m the only one up.
