Ogryns Loyal Protector needs some major love!

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
1
  • Yes, Both Ability Changes are Good…
  • Yes, but perhaps only the Range Increase…
  • Yes, but perhaps only the Utility Increase…
  • No, i think the Ability is already good.
0 voters

just started playing Ogryn with patch 13 and am loving it… … … … … … but.
Loyal Protector just isnt good compaired to indomitable or Point-blank Barrage.
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so what does it do?

Loyal Protector

Taunts Enemies within 8m, making them attack only you for 15s.
base cooldown 45s.
.

First Issue - the Range

Melee Aggro range is 10m so at 8m you will only be Aggroing targets that are already on allies.
it cant help you pull targets off a friendly but only in melee range an at that its not too useful.

now their is a Node on the tree that increases that range by 50%(Big Lungs)
but at that rate your range on the ability is only 12m bearly over Melee range.

what i would suggest is increase its range to 16m,
that way the Node (Big Lungs) would increase that range by 50% or 24m.
24m would be around the size of the Psykhanium central area.

this would give it a good base for Melee and Ranged attackers
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Second Issue - Utility!

the ability currently has almost none, well other than drawing fire.
but for the most part if you use it in a horde you get un’alive’d rather quickly.

we all know the Ogryn has the Slab Shield,
but you shouldnt have to equip it just to make the ability work.
a ability should work for most if not all weapons a character has.

so how do we do this? well perhaps Temporary Toughness damage reduction?
this would be based off the number of enemies taunted when the ability activates.
lets say, Ogryn has +3% Toughness Damage Reduction per taunted enemy upto 75%.

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how these would work with other Disrupt Destiny Nodes on the tree?

Loyal Protector (Suggested Changes)

Wail Loyal Protector is active, Ogryn gives off a pulse of might every 0.8s.
Pulses Taunt Enemies within a 16m Range for the duration of Loyal Protector.
Ogryn gains +3% Toughness Damage Reduction per taunted Enemy upto a max of 75%.
Lasts 15s, base cooldown 45s.
.

i feel this would make a better more reliable and useful Loyal Protector option.

thoughts, comments, concerns
thanks

6 Likes
2

I agree that it’s not quite as useful as the other two trees, the active ability just doesn’t do as much. Also, it’s a huge blunder that the tanky ogryn is the one that loses the ability to interrupt being grappled.
On top of the taunt not having as much utility in the first place, the range is far too small - that much is inarguable. It would make sense for you to be able to draw ranged fire, especially with a shield, but the 8-12m range does not allow for that.

It feels to me like the taunt almost necessitates the use of the shield, but the shield is rather passive and impotent, so you’re required to pick up the brawler nodes instead of the tanky ones. Therefore you just grab the taunt, and the left side of the tree, that’s how you can make yourself the most useful.
I also think that the brawler ogryn benefits much more from the tank ogryn’s keytones, but that’s just personal taste.

This would be great for a non-shield ogryn, but for a shield ogryn the skill tree is already too defensive, and passive imo.

I would suggest leaving the base range at about 10, and buff Big Lungs to 200% or so. In this case, a shield ogryn can pick it up and tank ranged fire, but a non-shield ogryn can skip it, and avoid committing suicide by drawing all ranged fire.

There are 3 build options currently, that I personally see:

  1. Taunt, left side of the tree with brawler talents, shield:
    You get okay damage, and great tankyness. You lose the ability to interrupt grapples. If you just played a brawler instead, you’d get a comparable amount of crowd control via the stagger, and at a much greater range, potentially being able to control rangers and monsters.
    This is the most optimal IMO, and it’s still inferior to the brawler.

  2. Grab all the protector nodes, but use a heavy hitting weapon:
    This allows you to play extremely aggressively and provide suppression for your team that way. I’m not sure if the taunt is any useful in this scenario at all, you’re better off wading in. I don’t really like the premise of intentionally eating hits, I don’t think it’s a viable strategy.

  3. Protector nodes with shield.
    This is the concept that everyone was hating on pre-patch too. Far too passive, not much agency in the team, the only improvement is that at least you can grab aggro now. Only at a short range though, whereas the greatest threats are ranged.

Potential fixes:
The quickest way I see to improving the build is making the active ability better. First it needs a range increase, no way around that. Ironically, I think it would benefit most from offensive options. If that’s off the table, it should get a Bardin style (Damage taken is reduced by 50%. Block cost reduced to 0.), which would allow you to tank without a shield. The keystone kind of does the first part.
When it comes to the shield, I think there’s some potential based on the keystones. My current issue is that you only get the knockback benefit when you take health damage, which you’re actively trying to avoid, and you’re exceedingly good at it. So in my opinion, it should also trigger when blocking while taunt is active, to allow you a window to deal some damage.

All of this still leaves the entire build too passive, which is the main issue, but it’s food for thought.
I generally agree with you, and I’m glad you brought it up, protector ogryn is my favourite role, but also the least optimal so far, ever since release.

3

I was so excited to get a Taunt, but I’ve already moved back to the Charge for now.

The Charge is better for self-defense while still being comparable in disrupting enemies nearby allies. It’s also not bad for reaching ranged enemies quickly in case those are the ones threatening your friends, something the Taunt can’t do at all.

The Charge can also disrupt all the bosses except the Daemonhost, but not even the Taunt does anything to the Daemonhost, so it’s not even better there.

What really stands out to me is the presence of Attention Seeker. Switching back to the Charge, but keeping Attention Seeker, and I can still Taunt everything I need to in close range (aside from bosses, it seems) while also being able to Taunt ranged enemies with the Shield.

As a Bullgryn since the beginning, I took for granted how much whether or not you’re using the Shield drastically changes the balance of the Taunt. We might have to wait until they rework the Shield for Taunt to have a proper niche.

4

reworked my suggestion alittle.
wail Loyal Protector is active, Ogryn gains +3% Toughness Damage Reduction per taunted Enemy,
upto a max of 75% Toughness Damage Reduction.

so if you have 25 enemies around you can have stay tanky,
this also encourages you to use in im hordes and crowds and not in stand alone fights.

5

An issue I have with Loyal Protector against hordes is that hordes come in waves, but Loyal Protector goes off once. So you either wait for as many to arrive as possible before Taunting, which means your allies are in danger while you’re waiting, or you Taunt right away and save your allies from the first wave, but subsequent waves completely ignore you. Loyal Protector doesn’t have a long cooldown, but it’s long enough if it’s a situation in which you do need it for more than one wave.

6

huummmm

perhaps change it from taunting the enemies on cast to a constant effect like the Zealots chorus?
like:

wail Loyal Protector is active, Ogryn gives off a pulse of might every 0.8s.
Pulses Taunt Enemies within a 16m Range for the duration of Loyal Protector.
Ogryn gains +3% Toughness Damage Reduction per taunted Enemy upto a max of 75%.

this way you could start taunting and more enemies could fall into your pulses.
ensuring that it acts as a utility during the full duration and its harder to whiff.

3 Likes
7

I just checked out Zealot, and it does get a better tank ability than the protector Ogryn, that’s pretty sad.
I don’t really want abilities copypasted over, but it would definitely be an improvement.

8

well not really copy paste as Loyal Protector gives the Orgyn the taunt effect and DR
where Zealots chorus gives allies a burst of toughness for abit.

i would also be happy with it instant refilling the Ogryns Toughness

9

or 50% like the Zealots charge, well minus the charge

10

I actually have my own take and thread about this ability being bad if you wanna compare ideas.

11

cool ill look into it, :slight_smile:

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more or less

13

With all due respect, I feel like people have looked at it on paper, though it seemed meh and gone back to the other 2 without played with it. While I don’t use it on the majority of my builds it is still incredibly strong in the rights hands and doubly soo with a coordinated team. A big part of it is Valuable Distraction:

image

Alongside the instant area stagger it has. If there is a Rager wave about to make contact with your team? Pop valuable distraction, and either with your team kill the whole wave before the even make contact with you, or block push dance while your team safely puts them down.

I think having skills that are harder to use but still incredibly strong in their own right is good to have. If it’s not meant for everyone? Fine. Not every Zealot is going to run Martyrdom etc. Although again it might be a thing where actually playing with a group of 3 or 4 makes all the difference for it.

14

Oh trust me, my gravity towards teamplay and tank based playstyles has made me avidly familiar with this ability. I’ve found that the bullcharge is always better if played properly. The taunt ability is a good protection ability… If the play doesn’t know how to already guard the team properly. At least with the tools of the current patch #14 talent balances.

Taunting doesn’t work on monsters/bosses unfortunately, so this is essentially just +25% close range damage against ragers and ogryns every 45 seconds.

^ Edit: I’m a gaslighting idiot i guess. I tried running the taunt again today and the ability does taunt bosses apparently. I wasn’t highlighting bosses during early patch#13 while running it though. Was either bugged or i’m visually impaired.

The “taunt on push/block” talent and “+25% melee impact” are all I have ever felt I’ve needed to keep rager packs off my team. Sure it doesn’t have a 25% team damage boost, but it also doesn’t have a 45 second cooldown.

Having the bullcharge ability also out ranges the taunt. You can sweep an area with melee crowd control and then charge to another area to lock down and stun everything in between as well. The taunt ability is useless against a ranged onslaught, while the bullcharge can stagger an entire hallway of enemies that were running at your team while you simultaneously tackle a line of gunners and remove essentially ALL pressure from the fight.

The taunt ability needs 2 extra skillpoint for the +50% radius to even be usable. The bullcharge doesn’t even require ability upgrades to be good while also having a 15 second shorter base cooldown and an innate 5 second buff for more mobility and bopping power. It just isn’t a fair comparison.

If this was Vermintide and not Darktide then maybe the taunt ability would be more comparable, but the second ranged enemies are thrown into the equation the radial taunt gets mechanically left in the dust.

My post linked in an above reply mentions how if the Loyal Protector increases the threat stat instead of taunting it would fit the game a lot better as it would actually work on ranged enemies without breaking AI like the taunt debuff does.

15

I discarded it at first, then went back to it, and I must say it is amazing.

  1. It is dishonest to say it has zero utility since it will stagger - and save a comrade from - absolutely everything, including dogs, bosses, mutants and flamers.

  2. With cooldown reduction trinkets and cooldown reduction on stagger talent, you can have it active roughly a third of the time if not more.

  3. You don’t need the shield to survive as a tank if you spam heavy attacks with The Best Defense, Bleed stack damage reduction talents, and that blessing that gives you toughness on hitting 3+ ennemies. Just spam heavies on the horde you aggroed, even with a knife, and you can’t go down. Don’t forget to push every now and then against ragers if you have a lighter weapon.

  4. Taunt works through ceilings, which means you aggro everything on the Z axis too. That helps a lot to disrupt shooter formations, and to save that one friend who got caught by a dog after everyone else jumped down.

I play taunt on Auric V +/- maelstrom, tested it with knife or shield, and it is beast if you know how to play the Ogryn in melee.
As an ogryn main, I don’t think it needs any buff. It just takes a bit to get used to, and to discover its potential. I was on the fence between Indomitable and taunt, and after running both in the highest difficulties, I believe I will keep the taunt. In addition to the utility I mentioned, it is simply the ultimate tool to help your punies breathe a little.

1 Like
16

im looking more into it now, i feel it still needs something more,
a giving it a 10% heal, or toughness restore could make it more usefull

17

Added Poll to Topic please Vote!! :slight_smile:

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