Ogryn's Changes

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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So, I want to list all the things that is changed about Ogryn, and maybe discuss some things
If I have missed anything, please correct me.

WHAT THE HELL IS AN OPPORTUNIST???
It’s +25% rending vs staggered enemies

Weapons

Slab Shield

  • Added ranged block properties during the Push action, in addition to the already existing melee block properties.

Branx Pickaxe

  • Improved the stagger properties of the Special bash attack:

    • Stagger_category from “melee” to “uppercut”.
    • Impact power distribution increased on the first 3 targets:
      • [1] from {16,33} to {30,70}
      • [2] from {8,20} to {10,60}
      • [3] from {6,18} to {10,35}.

  • Reduced the chain timings after specific attacks:

    • Heavy 2 into Light 3 / Heavy 1 start from 0.87 to 0.8
    • Heavy 2 into Special from 1.05 to 0.8
    • Heavy 2 into Block from 0.69 to 0.62
    • Push follow-up attack into Block from 1.1 to 0.9.

  • Borovian Pickaxe

    • Reduced the chain timings after specific attacks:
      • Heavy 2 into Light 3 / Heavy 1 start from 0.63 to 0.6
      • Heavy 2 into Special from 0.9 to 0.7
      • Heavy 2 into Block from 0.63 to 0.6.
    • Reduced the windup time for the Heavy 1 attack when chained from Light 2 / Heavy 2 from 0.8 to 0.72.

  • Karsolas Pickaxe

    • Reduced the chain timings after specific attacks:
      • Heavy 2 into Light 3 / Heavy 1 start from 0.56 to 0.55
      • Heavy 2 into Special from 0.75 to 0.6.
    • Reduced the windup time for the Heavy 1 attack when chained from Light 2 / Heavy 2 from 0.71 to 0.6.
    • Improved the stagger properties of the Push follow-up bash attack when hitting a Weakspot.

Blessing Pool Additions per Weapon

Latrine Shovel

  • New: Smackdown
    • +7.5-15% Critical Chance for3s on Special Action Hit (Staggered Enemy).
  • Opportunist

Bully Club

  • New: No Guts, No Glory
    • +50% Toughness Regeneration per second for 2-5s on Elite Special Action Hit.

Grenadier Gauntlet

  • New: Disruptive
    • Hitting at least 3 enemies with your secondary attack grants 15-30% bonus to Power on melee attacks for 3.5s.
  • New: Explosive Offensive
    • 6-15% Power bonus for 5 seconds after hitting multiple enemies with your weapon special explosion.
  • New: Gauntlet Momentum
    • +2-5% Power for 1.5s on Chained Melee Hit (Any Target). Max Stacks 10.
  • Point Blank

Twin-Linked Heavy Stubber

  • Terrifying barrage
  • Fire Frenzy

Power Maul

  • New: Power Surge
    • Special Attacks on Armored Enemies cause an additional Shockwave. Special Attacks have +10-25% Explosion Radius.
  • Opportunist
  • Perfect Strike
  • Supercharge

Battle Maul & Slab Shield

  • New: Last Guard
    • Block Breaks push Enemies, 15s cooldown. -15-30% Block Cost.
  • New: Offensive Defence
    • Gain a stack for each stamina spent blocking. Your next attack gains +4-10% melee power per stack and consumes one stack. Last 3.5s. Stacks 5 times.
  • Opportunist
  • Perfect Strike

Rumbler

  • New: Explosion Zone
    • +3-6% Explosion Radius for every shot fired during continuous fire. Stacks 5 times.
  • New: Shrapnel
    • +1-4 Bleed Stacks from close range explosions.
  • New: Clonk
    • 15-30% Reload Speed for 3s on Projectile Weakspot Hit.

Blessings

Unstoppable Force

  • Now also provides 2.5-10% Heavy Melee Damage based on Tier.

Adhesive Charge

  • Fixed an issue where the bonus damage of the blessing failed to be applied.

Talents

No Pushover

  • Reworked. New Description:
    • Your Pushes have +250% Stagger. Can only trigger once every 8s.

Dev Note: The Old ‘No Pushover’ was frankly not up to par. Maybe this spices things up a bit?

Big Boom

  • Explosion Radius: 22.5% to 27.5%.

Reloaded and Ready

  • Ranged Damage: 12% to 15%.
  • Duration: 6s to 8s.

Bruiser

  • Combat Ability Cooldown: 5% to 4%.

Massacre

  • Duration: 6s to 10s.

Steady Grip

  • Toughness: 3-5% toughness regeneration per second.

Delight in Destruction

  • Damage Resistance per Stack: 10% to 8%.

Too Stubborn to Die

  • Health Threshold: 25% to 33%.

Ogryn Talent Tree Updates

  • Swapped places of Toughness Damage Reduction Operative Modifier, and Suppression Boost Operative Modifier, on the Bottom Right part of the Tree.

Thick of the Fray

  • Removed. It is now included in Point-Blank Barrage per default.
General Summary
  • Slab Shield now block ranged while Pushing
  • Branx Pickaxe’s special now staggers like uppercuts
  • All Pickaxes are a little faster
  • WHAT THE HELL IS AN OPPORTUNIST??
  • New and shared blessings
  • No Pushover reworked
  • This:
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Old added blessings

It’s just for me to remember what do they do

  • Unstoppable Force
    Fully Charged Heavy Attacks ignore Enemy Hit Mass.
  • Opportunist???
    It’s +25% rending vs staggered enemies
  • Point Blank
    +14-20% Ranged Critical Chance after Melee Kill for 2.5 seconds.
  • Terrifying Barrage
    Suppress Enemies within 5-8 Radius on Close Range Kill
  • Fire Frenzy
    Gain +7-10% Close Damage for 3.5 seconds after killing an enemy at close range, stacking 5 times.
  • Perfect Strike
    Critical Hits ignore Hit Mas Bonus from Armour.
  • Supercharge
    +1-4 stacks of Brittleness on Energised Hit.

Insane Person’s Opinion

Ok, so, the main thing I saw people complain about is Delight in Destuction nerf and swapped TDR
(Here’s a picture if you didn’t see what was in “General Summary”)

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It’s kinda whatever to me, but I don’t see why was this change necessary - freaky behaviour.

They finally did something with this thing, which nobody even thought of taking into their build:
image

The Shield is now blocking ranged even while you are pushing!
It somehow never clicked to me that I needed that change, pretty awesome!

New “No Pushover”, I don’t really know what +250% stagger mean, but if it drops Crushers on their asses that would be cool. 8 seconds cooldown tho…

Buff to an “Unstoppable Force” is really not much, but maybe it will create a nice interaction with Krourk Mk VI Cleaver, overall pretty minor.

Power Maul, holy hell will I spam the hell out of that Special attack, with this Power Surge Blessing, HOLY

And Pickaxes being faster, don’t know why they did it, but I am all for it :+1: .
And Branx Pickaxe’s special being an Uppercut now is nice, I actually thought it was this way until I tried hitting a Crusher…

Conclusion, Ogryn will pretty much be the same, the TDR swap is wierd, don’t think it was needed.
Also, I suppose that my full mastery of the Shield is not there anymore, because of these 4 new blessings, huh?
But new 8 blessings per weapon sounds cool, loving it :+1:

WHAT THE HELL IS AN OPPORTUNIST???
It’s +25% rending vs staggered enemies

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Remind me what Opportunist is, again?

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If it’s like shock maul it’s:
image
This may replace skullcrusher (still wonky?) for BiS shield, solo vs team ofc.
P.S. Instead of all the screen snippets, you could just did the [Copy Quote] from selection toolbar, ironically here’s a snippet of it
image
Edit:
Opportunist on Paul is very interesting too, especially with Supercharge (brittle debuff) which can stack on physical hit AND shockwave hit; personal rending AND brittle debuff!?

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Fun fact about this skill if I’m remembering correctly from my previous GG testing. My memory is its the only PBB sub node that does anything for GG special, so I’m kinda happy about that becoming base as well as the buff to explosion radius talent, always wanted to make a GG special oriented build good, and that should help, though its inability to be boosted by general ranged or melee damage increases is still sad and kinda wonky. Can’t remember anymore which talents do boost it but I remember there are very few that work with it. I really hope explosive offensive gives the boost to the special that procs it but I kinda doubt it sadly. Let me build around this goofy attack properly please.

On the note of explosion radius buffs I feel like blaze away + explosion zone + big boom rumbler is gonna be pretty silly for nullifying density but I guess we’ll see.

No BLO buffs/changes is a bit disappointing. From memory it also can’t even proc on GG special, not that it would be worth it currently even if it could.

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The TDR/Suppression swap is there so you don’t get access to easy TDR on other builds. He gets a little less tanky on melee builds with DID nerf as well, imo.

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For non-luggers, the Rumbler bleeds might be a big deal. You can rumble close range and profit from bleeder DR and set up zealots for cleanup, currently I do this with vet frags. Bull Charge can do this, but this adds options for more/other bleeds and for taunters. Lost some bleed DR from change to Delight.
I was gonna suggest bleeds for rumbler in the past but thought it too strong, silly me.
I still would like at least an ammo increase for Rumbler, to boost its relevance a bit more after the power creep.

Unlucky Bullet remains so, le sigh.

Yeah, the TDR swap is to deny easy access to it.

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Branx chain buffs seem to make it a lot less hefty than it should be for that damage. Even the crowd heavy attack is more like an Ironhelm powered attack nuking the first enemy hit harder than like anything in the Ogryn kit. Its almost as hardcore a single target knocker as the folded shovel hit, but has 7 enemies damaged and 16 hitmass.

And the special buff is a huge step on the other pickaxes’ niche. Right now about the only time they don’t feel like weak Branx is through the pull and decent attack speed. The Branx has such ridiculous stagger power on its normal attacks about the only thing you can’t disrupt by just whacking it with Slam node currently are Crushers about to overhead. Is this needed? Stagger power on hit should be a club thing imo. The Branx special has a large number of enemies hit and massive hitmass, so to me it functions more like an alternative fast sweep. If we just compare it in damage its literally a club light attack with better damage curve and another 4 enemies hit.

Was hoping to see more in the next part of the patch notes, if there’s more. Clubs and knives are so meh right now. Ripper gun 6 and Krouk stubber are easily 2 of the worst ranged of all time.

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Ye, I was kinda stupid with all those screenshots :pensive:
Just copy pasted it now, because “Copy Quote” wasn’t necessery, but I will now try to Quote sections of the update, just because

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Time to buff Pickaxes and not touch cleavers or clubs, surely this is the move!

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That is, indeed, a move for sure.

Pickaxes are pretty insane and are just better Cleavers and Clubs I noticed, Karsolas especially.
But, I want to actually see and feel the buffs before saying that it’s busted.

Anyway, I want Cleavers buffed in some way, and something done with Clubs, they are right now pretty mild in comparison to Pickaxes.

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This reads like a change on technical level only, I doubt that they will make the animation an upper cut.

I think the blessing is a mistake. It will invariably only enhance the arguably least exciting attack of the Paul and create situations in which Ogryn cannot be overwhelmed due to the sheer amount of control the blessing seems to offer (Crushers may be able to snap out of it with their forced impact immunity after being staggered, but everything else won’t harm you).

I think the same of Supercharge. Paul has decent breakpoints altogether, I doubt that giving it another blessing that only works on special attacks and of all things only applies brittleness to affected target/s (TBD) will improve its pick rate.

If Supercharge will proc on initial shockwave hit, as well as the follow-up one, in an AoE, it will essentially make Paul into a debuff stick, with possible application on Gunlugger, I suppose.

It’s not like the interaction was ever gone, i.e., it sliding past Carapace armour, effectively allowing it to cleave Crushers and not have to aim for the bodies of Maulers (and hit things that hide behind/on the sides of Bulwark shields). If the Mk6 cleaver won’t have a moveset overhaul which will grant it some semblence of damage v Carapace (like the Mk4 did), it will not be used.

The blessing itself is… OK. It offers good utility to the cleavers. The buff doesn’t change much about its functionality.

It’s cool. I like that the Stubbers will now be able to specialize in Close range damage field with FF and Deathspitter, but with how Ripper guns are currently, they might be completely outclassed in their niche by the Stubbers. I suppose I’ll have to wait and see how this statement ages, though.

I think understand where many of these came from. The nerfs (TDR node move, Bruiser and Delight in Destruction) were completely justified, especially with how easy it is to be basically unkillable as an Ogryn. The Bruiser is mostly targeted at Point Blank Barrage I reckon, but it’s a staple skill, still.

This is nice - it may be easier to reliably benefit off of in heated low-HP situations and always on one’s last wound (provided that one don’t use Wound curios, which one shouldn’t!!)

They really are trying very hard to improve the pick rate on this skill. It’s… fine, the problem is that the only weapon in the entire game that benefits from it in realistic occurences is the Achlys stubber - everything else is too slow to benefit from it reliably, as bracing is an action that is detrimental to your general mobility.

May see some more use, still, considering that Thick of the Fray was embedded into PBB by default. I’d like to see bracing actions generally more worthwhile across Ripper guns/Stubbers before truly stating that this skill has merit outside of Achlys stubber (bracing it is a very quick and fluent action).

Decent changes across the field. I don’t know why they have made the pickaxes even more fluent in their attack chains, but it’s not like I’m going to complain about it. I’d like to see more changes to other Ogryn melee weapon categories, though.

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Ye, Branx Pickaxe, as I understand, functions the same as the Uppercuts, nothing on the animation front.

Yes, it’s a wierd decision. I generally don’t like the Paul, so don’t have much to say :pensive:

I don’t think so, they never were not able to do that in the first place, well at least it wasn’t their no-zone.
Ok, not like discussing these 2 blessings and its hypothetical effects on the weapon is really interesting to me, so it’s best to just wait until it will be out.
Well, I think that it will not shake the balance, so it’s just a nice addition :+1:

YEEESSS, and I just came to realization that it will trigger on exactly one wound, so maybe I will give this talent a try.

Please do something with other weapons: Krourk Stubber, Cleavers and that one Club(the blue one) that nobody uses :pray:

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This will make one of my casual friends really happy. Now he will never have to learn how to slide to dodge ranged fire :joy:

Pickaxes really didnt need more buffs. I stopped using them as their power is just silly.

Crit based blessings / talents are “interesting” addition as Ogryn doesn’t benefit from weakspot and crits almost at all…I assume this is work in progress.

Unstoppable Force addition is welcomed, but in general I would Fatshark to move away from making Ogryn “all” about heavy attacks. His movesets needs to get more interesting, this is what makes pickaxes so fun to use. Their moveset have some depth.

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i love the bonk stick on zealot, so if these changes are going to make ogryn’s paul work similarly, i’m really looking forward to it.

power surge that staggers them should synergize with opportunist.

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Erm, the Paul already staggers “them”, so Opportunist would be nice on it’s own.

I am really confused to what Power Surge will actually do, like, will it just immediately explode twice? Will this additional Shockwave stagger targeted Armored enemy twice?
(Actually, no, I don’t think that even the first Shockwave affects the enemy that you hit, just everyone around that hit)

I guess it’s good for isolating targeted Armored enemy from all the things around.

And now that I think about it, isn’t it kinda wierd that with all those blessings it will be even better to just spam Special Attack, even tho they said that this is what they want to avoid?

But thanks for sharing your opinion.
I think that these Ogryn changes are hard to discuss, there’s not much, and everything seems just nice. Ogryn is in general not interesting to people, or just not controversial, which is nice but kinda boring :pensive:

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I re-read it and assumed it was a wording issue, and was just an expanded explosion (shockwave) radius. Ogryn explo radius talent boosts this already FYI. It sounds like a lesser pick vs some of the new options, Supercharge alone is rather interesting.

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Yeah and Ogryn has base CHC penalty as well as weapon specific ones IIRC, I’d love to see both disappear as they don’t make much sense, and further crit blessings are curious.

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Or they could rework all weapon stats for Ogryn to actually reward weakspot and crits more

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Oh whoa I never even thought of this. Thanks for the tip.

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This what I have been using it with. Makes cleaving and managing packs of crushers, easier.

I would imagine this happened because Fatshark wants to remove easy dip for extra 10% TDR on melee builds. I occasionally took it if I had a point leftover, as it is very easy to reach. Was it really needed? :man_shrugging:

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