He has the Psyker issue of being a little deeper than he appears, but then there’s that gunlugger set that is so obviously busted and stupid that it makes no sense trying to encourage people to try other things. It and the cooldown talent should have been nerfed relevantly instead of just taking away 1 burn stack and 1s of ult cooldown off bruiser.
And I’m sure you adjust your talent build significantly for each of those choices and don’t just use the same bleed + bleed DR heavy hitter build yeah?
Meanwhile, on the vet for example, you make considerations such as “do my weapons benefit more from marksmans focus, focus target or weapon specialist?” and the same consideration for countless of the small talent nodes (like the rending, brittleness, weakspot damage nodes) which completely changes your talent build based on what you use. You then get the choice to spec into grenades more based on leftover points, too. On Ogryn it’s basically the same one every time.
That’s what people mean when they say he lacks build variety. And honestly even if you DID take it to also include weapon variety, then Ogryn’s still the loser of the roster because you just listed 4 melee weapons lol. The other classes have more than three times as many. Not really “endless variations” is it?
I’d be very happy if they reworked the Ogryn talent tree but as it is now I can’t imagine a shuffling of the nodes to do anything of value.
4 Likes
not after this.
Not to start anything but you are very very wrong. The only way to play ogryn is to spec into heavy attacks. You get exactly two choices in this process, neither of which changes it enough to be a different build. You can pick between rocks and nuke, and you can pick between bullrush and taunt.
You started talking about the weapons as if they count as build variety when they really don’t (Also I wouldn’t call cleavers amazing unless I was playing on malice). Pick cleavers? Spam heavies. Pick shield? Spam heavies. Pick clubs? Spam heavies. Pick picks? Spam heavies.
That’s it. That’s the ogryn build. It’s just heavies.
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Heavies are over-emphasized yes, but definitely not the only way to build. Let alone bullrush and taunt being the only choices? Just no, not even close.
Just to list a few things here:
- Ranged specials count as heavíes and several ranged can use them well via blessings
- Skipping the heavy talents saves a ton of points to use elsewhere so it’s not just a negative
- Weapons like Cleaver III / VI or Club IIIb are crazy strong and can handle toughness regen just fine with Confident Strike or Momentum
- If you’re good enough with basic melee, Feel no Pain & the passive regen buffs are enough even with just the base melee kill regen, or you can compromise and pick Smash Em and nothing else
- While the Branx Pickaxe definitely wants the toughness regen, it’s so crazy strong it doesn’t need bleeds or most heavy dmg buffs since it’ll still 1-shot about everything
- There’s several ways to build ranged oggies
- For example, a Ripper V (Blaze Away & Flechette, or Cavalcade & Flechette) with burn ult & crit path down to BLO can wipe a huge hallway clean with 2 clips and a single ult, while about instantly recharging that ult. It’ll also melt bosses.
- And there’s many ways to make hybrids using both ranged & melee
All of these and more are not just viable, but shine on T5+.
3 Likes
How is that played differently from an achlys stubber? You act like this is variety but you’re just naming the sole playstyle for full auto guns.
To be fair though, ranged does have TWO playstyles. The other involves taking FNP because lucky bullet sucks for a solid half of the ogryns ranged arsenal, and you take the rending ult because the fire doesn’t work for explosions and sucks with the kickback.
I’d like you to show me even just one melee focused build that wouldn’t just be objectively better with bleed + bleed DR + heavy hitter. There are alternatives but they’re worse. I wouldn’t say intentionally nerfing yourself by not picking the best talent choices is variety, especially because your playstyle ends up being the exact same anyway, you just do less damage and take more.
Meanwhile, a wep specialist vet will play COMPLETELY different from a focus target vet. Even with the exact same weapons. And he’ll have different strengths and weaknesses.
2 Likes
The fact that Ogryn’s have comparatively tiny DR next to Vets is so ridiculous that it’s laughably silly. Why not change this instead of switching Keystones around? What’s it going to be? Switching STU with Slam? Wow, big deal… Come on. I just cannot see this as a useful change in my eyes. Literally absurd.
2 Likes
I genuinely have no idea what you think you’re proving with this point. Ranged specials that count as heavies are not as effective as just pulling out your melee and hitting them.
Saves points for what? Trash like Won’t Give In, Payback Time, and Towering Presence? And then you go calling cleavers strong again, which is hilarious because even if I run Slaughterer and Thrust their performance against armour is atrocious. You also recommend toughness blessings for some reason? There is no reason to gimp your damage by taking trash blessings that are just worse than what the tree provides you in every conceivable way.
If you’re good enough with basic melee, Feel no Pain provides no benefits that justify giving up both the amazing toughness on heavies and more damage to let you clear things faster. You do not need anything from FnP when you can just swing a heavy attack and be back at full toughness.
No. Go actually test crusher one-shots with the Branx out before you try to convince me that you don’t need to take damage buffs with it.
You’ve already been asked to clarify how this is any different from Achlys stubber. You’re doing that thing you do where you cope yourself into thinking different weapons count as build variety. Gunlugger requires you to gimp all your melee damage to spec into ranged just to run into another issue of ammo economy and if you try to make a hybrid build you then run into yet another issue where you are just mediocre at both while being even worse at ammo efficiency since you aren’t taking the keystone. Like, sure its strong or whatever, but this is a melee focused game and if I want to shoot enemies all match there are literally so many other games out there to play instead. Gunlugger makes your other teammates have ammo issues just by taking so much of it and also misses the entire point of a tide game.
I’m starting to think that you are confusing “build variety” and “gimping yourself with bad talent choices for literally just a worse version of the same build”.
3 Likes
You have evidently never experienced the joy of Branx light attack spam… or perhaps sufficiently experimented with Ogryn weapon combos at all.
People always spamming heavies seem like they are playing the skill tree and not the game — use the right attack for the situation. If you are always afraid of missing toughness there are ways to play around that, too.
1 Like
bye bye lmao
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imo, the appeal of playing ogryn is having this big, tough guy who smashes the punies around like bowling pins.
so, please keep ogryn doing this.
he needs toughness as he’s a big target and less mobile, and can’t do less damage than the human classes.
fatshark has this history of overshooting with both nerfs and buffs.
4 Likes
Bask in Emperor’s light…
2 Likes
Talent tree reset only if they add, move or remove something.
So, they will add or move or remove at least 1 talent node.
Is this real? anyways, it made me laugh.
Das it, were org- I meen ogranyzing a strike!! Gather all rocks
What change? You call something you don’t know yet absurd? 
Aw sadness…just some minor changes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NpdUzH5xKk
gameslantern has updated the skill tree of the ogryn. So you can already see what will be changed.
1 Like
Looking at the changes…
Swapping Towering Presence into Reloaded and Ready’s spot is fine, a great change even.
Putting Pacemaker where Towering Presence was and Reloaded and Ready where Big Boom used to be feels like it was intentionally punitive, as Pacemaker won’t do squat (if I understand its functionality correctly) for many weapons that can benefit from Reloaded and Ready. Am I missing something or just undervaluing Pacemaker?
Pacemaker and Reloaded And Ready work well together with the Kickback.