The trend over many updates was downwards, TUF replenish, TDR node shuffle, TDR via bleeds etc., and OFC the “accidental” drive-by nerfs due to stagger thresholds being changed. All these changes were felt in-game at the hardest diffs, especially in a no-yellow-toughness group.
Sadly, I half-expect the downward trend to continue, but maybe with the new stubber someone went back and had another look? Unlucky bullet is still pretty crappy for starters…
Dare I hope?
I’m guessing it’ll literally just be pathing/node location shuffle since the post says specifically layout changes. I am almost certain this relates to the rock and soften em up specifically since that’s a very common complaint, I’m just hoping they don’t move anything important out of the way for it.
Actual balance changes that aren’t just numbers nerfs for Ogryns would be very welcomed indeed though. I’d do anything for some more variety on this character
here we go again
not even the courtesy to tell us what the changes are?
I hope the trend continues, Ogryn is still way too indestructible to be enjoyable to play. On a different note I also hope it gets the psyker treatment and gets some extra nodes. Options are a “bit” lacking on the big guy.
I assume Ogryn is getting the Psyker tree treatment, a pass to make it more interesting and include some new nodes. Excite!
Ogryn doesn’t really need a layout change, moreso a complete overhaul to the ogryn experience. It’s not really satisfying to play an absolute beast in melee when it only spams one heavy attack against all enemies regardless of weapon choice and get rocketed or pinballed by every shotgunner, flamer, bomber grenade, etc.
If overhauling the talent tree and melee weapons for more interesting combos and distinctions between them is too much for now, then I rather a patch focus on overhauling their hitbox and sprint/dodge to be more in line with the other classes or at the very least providing some form of knockback immunity/mitigation. would make the class much less frustrating in moments like dealing with flamers behind a chaos spawn or vaulting over anything in the game ever.
Does this mean we might have easier access to the extra ammo node? Ive always found it absurd every veteran build has access to the extra ammo but ogryn doesnt unless you go pbb or taunt. Would be very useful for gg or runbler charge builds to have acces to that extra ammo but im sure the changes wont be that drastic cuz that skill is deep right after all.
Due to the lack of info on what these changes are, I hope this isn’t just a disguise for more dumb nerfs to the Ogryn.
You already nerfed his tankiness way too much and that was one of his main gimmicks, no wonder Ogryn is the least played class with how much you guys nerf him and I say this as an Ogryn main, I have double the play time on Ogryn then any other class.
You should buff Ogryns ability to tank back to where it used to be, he’s not tanky enough. Buffing FNP and also making the keystone upgrade nodes be actually good (spoiler, most of them suck and get ignored) so people have a reason to use them more.
Here’s a list of the weak keystone upgrade nodes:
Pained Outburst: Should give full toughness considering how long the cooldown is, it did used to do this via a bug and was balanced like this.
Toughest!: This one isn’t terrible, but I think it could use a little something extra, like instead of giving toughness, make it that 10% of toughness generated from any source is converted to gold toughness, said gold toughness lasts for 5 seconds, this can stack up to a max of 50 gold toughness. Now this would be interesting instead of boring more of the same from FNP.
Strongest: Should let you stagger Monsters (or any enemy really) with melee headshots on punch/uppercut special attacks, much like we used to be able with the punch attack on the OG Latrine Shovel against Monsters. You could have a short cooldown on this if you think it will be too strong without one.
Good Shootin’: If you were to roll both a normal crit and and Lucky bullet successfully at the same time that should give double damage for this rare event. A double crit so to speak.
Brutish Momentum: Honestly, just let this ability work all the time and not when you have stacks, let it also generate stacks and maybe increase light attack damage by 2% per stack, this would make bull butcher builds far more viable and powerful, same for light attacks in general, since light attacks tend to be pretty weak for most Ogryn weapons, they only really get weaved in to quickly stagger lesser enemies or to get back to specific more useful heavy attacks. Pure light attack spamming is not very viable.
Anyway, that’s my list of keystone upgrade nodes that imo need improvements.
I think some of the weaker regular talents could also be improved or in some cases combined to make room for new talents. For example combining “implacable” with “No Stopping Me!”. Hardly anyone really uses NSM because it basically doesn’t do anything, most enemies already can’t interrupt an Ogryn anyway (and no this doesn’t mean do nerfs to make the Ogryn get interrupted more) so might as well add this effect to Implacable and come up with a new talent to go in NSM previous slot.
Oh cool you have improved, thanks for the warning. Hope it give good changes for the big man.
Grrr…
Vogg not likey!
Vogg needs Screenshurtz agan!
Vogg angry!
But Vogg thx for heads up. 
I hope that this redistribution will open new possibilities without damaging the 2 viable builds that now exist.
And hope for no shadow nerfs.
I hope layout changes means new nodes to play with. Cautious but optimistic of what you will do with the big boys.
If possible, I hope you guys can prepare articles on the content of this update a week before each update, because almost every time there are parts that are missed (or secretly changed?).
Ogryn mains are truely the most oppressed out of all the rejects. Can’t wait to see the latest nerf we will suffer through.
Update: ogryns now only receive half rations
Wow, lots of negativity for Ogryn changes. No surprise, and honestly I’ve also been disappointed with the latest directions FS has taken. Direct nerfs to the tankiness of the tankiest class, what’s to love?
Hopefully this is passed on and we can get some dev diaries or other intel about FS plans for the class. Clearly there is appetite 
Not to start anything but I can’t even imagine sticking to 1 build in a game that supports basically endless variations on highest difficulties. No matter the class I’m always changing my builds, all the time. Oggies are amazing with cleavers, shields, clubs, pickaxes, and every ranged weapon family rocks in various ways.
Havoc may and probably will change that and expose a true meta. But even then, on every other mode you can create extremely strong builds in any number of ways.
Here we go again… How are we going to mutilate Oggy’s abilities this time?
Slightly off topic, but I would honestly love for all the toughness regeneration talents and some of the other talents to also affect light attacks and not just heavy attacks, but with a lower toughness regeneration/effect that would allow for a more light attack centric or mixed attack pattern playstyle without being overpowered.
As an example, talents like The Best Defence and Smash Em could regenerate 5% toughness on light melee attacks (i am just throwing a number out there as an example, actual values would have to be tested), Batter could give just 1 stack of bleed on a light attack instead of 4, or require a critical hit to apply the bleed stack when using light attacks.
Meanwhile vet tree is so bad that no vet mains are worried about the new cycle of talent changes
