Because this conversation is literally pointless. This will answer your deep questions lol.
i dont think its pointless the whole point is to provide feedback to fatshark and we do this by discussing the balance of the game which is what we were just doing now
Yes, exactly. If you look back youâll see everybodyâs criticisms with certain videos that explain this & nerfs on the rework that people will just ignore because âhypebeast.â What youâre saying literally has nothing to do with these direct criticisms, instead you went off on some weird tangent. Thatâs why Iâm talking in a super sarcastic tone. Thatâs why you donât jump into random conversations before reading previous ones to understand the full context. If you want to respond to criticisms of the rework or maybe those videos, cool. Now, I never said that this update is bad⌠If you read back, I said theyâre heading in the correct direction. Most of my criticisms stem from a pretty valid video in my eyes. This update doesnât move me in the ohh wow direction that Ogryn is on-par with the other classes. Itâs just another average update in my eyes. I donât fall into these hype-traps, I like being critical sometimes of Fatshark. If you know their history youâd get that. Iâm criticizing certain aspects of the rework is all Iâm doing. Literally nothing more, nothing less. Some people in here donât like this kind of stuff because probably a good chunk are loyalists most likely. Iâm just going to still call it out like I see it & thatâs really too bad.
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I donât think this conversation was happening until havok who knows with new Mortis Trials we could see a flip on whoâs OP depending on its finer details similar to havok⌠and if Havok is all forgotten Ogryn suddenly not Underpowered? except in so and so game mode.
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i disagree
i also disagree
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Anyone who has playtested the update will tell you in no uncertain terms that it is a buff. Analysis from anyone else is interesting, of course, but if their conclusion is that Ogryn has ended up in a worse spot than before â they are simply wrong.
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what was it Cole said, night and day, the difference between new ogre and old ogre
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Cole said that going back to old Ogryn after playtesting âfelt like being waterboardedâ.
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Nah man you get it all wrong.
New ogryn still has no gamebreaking overtoughness, or a horrendously overtuned weapon like DS⌠SO HE SUCKS MKAY?
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I shall see if he feels that way tonight 
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Yeah, from my perspective the other Archetypes are the main issue here. The massive increase to Player Power back in Patch #13 has completely upended the balancing of Darktide.
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I can imagine the general disappointment that comes with realising you have to go back to normal Darktide after getting to mess around with all of the new stuff in playtesting.
⌠Thatâs not to say it wouldnât be worth it, though.
âhistorically Ogryn has had some of the highest winrates in Havoc lobbies!â
Ogryn haters confirmed BTFO. Literally just learn to play. Skill issue. Cry some more.
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Itâs both a buff and a nerf. Like nerfing gunlugger by taking away the boss damage through burn has might as well killed that sub-class.
Talent tree pathing is better, I agree. It is very well done and allows for good build variety.
His grenades arenât really better, what the devs shouldâve done is just baked the blitz modifiers into the grenades themselves as actual buffs. Fragbomb is decent as is.
His keystones are better and I agree. I think BLO couldâve been slight bit more, like make it 20% chance to trigger lucky bullet. But heavy hitter and FNP are very good now.
Ogrynâs innate tankiness is worse now. You get less overall toughness and toughness DR in the new tree when compared to the old, current tree. In that you can get 160 toughness in total despite ogryn only having 50 baseline toughness.
In the new tree, despite ogryn getting his base toughness buffed to 75, only can net you 140. Which is a nerf.
They need to give ogryn MORE toughness not take it away. They also nerfed delight in destruction again.
His slower firing weapons are unchanged, the PBB and 4 burn stacks change is not enough of a buff and in general nerfing the burn stacks to capout at 16 on PBB just made gunlugger even less viable as a class. They should undo the PBB changes entirely and leave PBB as is.
His ammo was barely changed, only weapon that got more ammo was the ripper guns, and even that buff was just them giving us back the ammo they took away in a past patch.
And regarding weapons, they ignored the power maul entirely. A weapon that is objectively ogrynâs wost melee weapon.
The new dodge passive is great I agree and it will help ogryn in hordes and the like. But
they still should give him more movement speed through Unstoppable Momentum. UM should be moved into the middle tree so both melee and ranged builds can grab it easily and benefit from it and it should be buffed into being 20% movement speed for 5s on kill.
Damage for ogryn is better and I like that they made his light attacks actually usable now.
Ogrynâs team support is better as in he can kill more enemies, which is good. But his team related nodes arenât as great. Like No Hurting Friends should be 5% strength on you or team mate taking any sort of damage. Stacking 3 times. For Lilâuns is bad because of the cool down
Stagger was barely changed but it is nicer since it can benefit the team even more through Hard Knocks.
But thereâs a whole lot of stuff that needs buffing.
Like coming back to ogrynâs toughness, they should not be taking away ogrynâs toughness, they should be either keeping it the same, ie. he can get up to 160 toughness in total from the tree, or they should be giving him more. For example I think they should buff ogrynâs base toughness even 100 just like the veteran has it but then change the 5% toughness DR node into +15 toughness like the one next to it because 5% TDR is laughable and practically useless.
Then this would then allow ogryn to go up 180 toughness base toughness without curios.
Which is good because itâd also allow ogryn more build variety in terms of curios.
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That would be so funny
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Ogryn is already better in Havoc than most classes. People who reject him from their lobbies are idiots.
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He is in theory, but his kit requires a bit more effort /skill to be a noticeable benefit to the group. Most fresh ogryn players are a burden and get deleted quickly. So do most inexperienced dome/chorus players, mind you, but they manage to provide a bit more before they go down from my anecdotal experience. The kits are simply easier to apply.
The experienced and competent Ogryn player certainly is a boon. Certainly more useful than most vets Iâve seen in 40s. Strawhatâs reddit comment does checks out. Iâve had a some very smooth h40 runs with some of them. Even with insane ones running no keystones kek.
I mean no disrespect but this has been said in the past, that said I do like alot of the changes and believe it is a step in the right direction however I do not understand the changes to gunlugger.
Edit: regarding win rates, i dont play havoc but the lobbyâs I play it is 7/10 a ogryn who is constantly dying and 3/10 one who is decent or good and almost always underperform at the stat screen. The only exception was 1 player that had insane good stats that i had never seen before on ogryn.
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If you add up the numbers, gunlugger now has something like 75-90% increased range damage available to him, depending on exact picks. He had 10%-25% before. This is on top of having more toughness and DR and easier access to relevant melee talents like batter and toughness gen.
I think anyone obsessing over the nerf to the fire stack cap (which is only relevant on bosses anyway, itâs a buff for non bosses cause you now apply 4 per shot and 16 is enough to kill anything else) is not seeing the full picture at all. Youâll see how massive such huge damage bonuses are on ranged weapons soon.
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