Non-crit attack speed trait for melee weapons

Something like each hit increases attack speed by 2-3% for 5 seconds up to 10-15%?
This trait would be great for characters with low crit chance, for slow weapons like two-handed hammer.

4 Likes

I’ve a feeling it would be too easy to stack though.

Swift Slaying is entirely dependent on something randomly happening, this, however, would not only have a concrete 100% chance of occuring (thus being easier to activate), but also grants the same bonus as Swift Slaying at max stacks (thus almost being a better version of it).

If I had to change something about your suggestion, it would only grant 2% attack speed per stack, and would only grant a maximum of 10% attack speed at max stacks.

This way, it would still grant a more consistent bonus than Swift Slaying, but Swift Slaying would give a higher bonus at the cost of being less reliable.

9 Likes

I Think the two handed hammer is pretty cool even for no slayer grungnis. having attack speed on it and on youre trinked is making it pretty swift even without swift slaying.

Atm its nice balanced in my opinion .If you want the full Potential you need to go slayer and if you stack even more attack speed with these kind of skills youre talking about the weapons would be even more op then it is now and the consequence would be a nerv on dmg or somthing like this.

You should always build youre Charakter around the weapons you use or Think about youre playstyle and how a weapon fits in to it.

For me there are some weapons im not really playing for example the longbow its not that i would say its a bad weapon, i know many ppl who like it and theyre doing great with this weap , i simply dont enjoy playing with it.

Sure i could say make it faster, let it shot poison arrows or i just play another bow thats allready doing this.
In v2 you got a good variety of weapons everybody will find a weapon he likes.

Making every weapon have every ability maxed out would make it obsolete making other builds or even having more than one meele and range weapon in this game .

1 Like

Would be nice but I think that it should be around 6-8%. Like 2% for hit stacking 3-4 times, would be more balanced. Actually this is a good idea due to some non-crit characters (FK,IB,RV,HM etc) can have issues with slow weapons even with max atkspd stacked (charm+talents+weapons) this trait can help it a bit without overshadowing original swift slaying.

4 Likes

There’s no reason not to stack crit though… I mean, even classes like FK can get 15% crit through weapons, trinket and passive. Then take EX sword and you’re sitting at 35% crit chance on heavy attacks. Of course crit builds are even better on classes like shade, waystalker and WHC and Zealot. Some of which can have 30% crit chance all the time on every attack, and classes like Zealot with the DLC weapon who can hit 40% crit chance on push attacks. Very easy to proc swift slaying and keep it up during engagements.

As for the OP’s idea of stacking attack speed on successful hits. Weapons like the 2 handed hammer are already really good and this would just break them. They ignore super armour, allowing you to 2-3 hit CWs on legend. Just throw crit and attack speed 5% on the weapon and 5% attack speed on charm with 5% crit on trinket. FK kruber has a 5% attack speed talent as well if you want to trade HP talent for that. Same goes for ranger bardin. So you can already have them sitting at 15% attack speed with swift slaying ready to proc at a 15% chance.

1 Like

Critical hits is very unreliable with low critical chance. The problem in there is how critical chance calculated. Each critical hit calculated separatedly. So there can be several consecutive procs and otherwise. You can see how it work, with “chance to not consume” traits. Sometimes people using grenades or healing items up to 3 times in a row. One time one man throwed one grenade 4 times. And of cource effect can “to not proc” several times in a row too.

So unless you have high enough critical chance and attack speed, there will be several “failed to proc” cases from time to time. And lower the crit chance and attack speed will be, more often these cases will happen.

There definitely needs to be some kind of non-crit dependent offensive melee trait. I hate SS, partly because many of my builds are low crit, and also because I don’t like unpredictable weapon timing. If I can’t get enough crits for 100% uptime, I don’t use it, because I find the consistent timing much more valuable.

I’d suggest something new with strong limitations to offset the ease of triggering it. Perhaps a stacking debuff applied to a single target, or something that only affects 1 armor type at a time like Hunter does for ranged weapons.

Here’s an idea - a stacking debuff (on the target, so it affects only the that target) of 1% damage, up to 25 stacks. First hit applies 1 stack, and every hit after that doubles. So you’d get 1>2>4>8>16>25(cap). This would make it pretty much useless vs hordes, since they die before it ramps up, but still let it ramp up fast enough to be valuable on bosses.

More non-crit traits for slower weapons would be nice. I consider Swift Slaying the default because you “can’t go wrong” with it, it is a flat bonus compared to using a blue items. But as people have pointed out to get the full benefit you have to be running a crit class.

1 Like

A 15% Crit rate (what you get with the Careers and weapons without any extra bonuses) is already pretty high, and while it’s not high enough to keep Swift Slaying up constantly (or to rely on crits in any way), it’s still effective enough to choose SS. I’d love to see alternatives, though - at the moment Crit Chance+SS is pretty much the default option for most Careers and weapons because of its effectiveness. In fact, I think that SS itself is slightly too effective, but that’s a discussion for another time.

As @LordRhinark (and others) said, if OP’s idea were to be implemented, it’d need to be balanced at lower effectiveness than SS for its reliability, and possibly with a quite short window for stacks too. With a high-crit Career, SS can already uphold itself; if that were to be reliable, any Career would be able to do that. A lower, stacking effect applied on hit (or even on kill) would indeed be one option.

This could be combined with another hope of mine, though: at least some Traits that trigger on melee headshots. That would be more reliable than Crits as it’s controllable, and as such would still need to be tweaked to lower (peak) efficiency, but (unlike on-hit) it’d require some skill to trigger, at least constantly. Not high skill, and anyone would trigger it every now and then, but some additional care would ensure that it’s up almost all the time, and from the first attack in a fight.

I’d love a move away from Crits anyway, as Crit Chance is the “can’t hurt” option that goes with anything, and that I’ll only skip if I have something specific in mind when building equipment. Traits that rely on other trigger mechanisms would be a step in that direction.

1 Like

What would you guys think of a trait that simply gives 25% headshot dmg?

2 Likes

25% might be a bit much, but I like the idea.

Honestly, more traits is just generally a good idea.

1 Like

I think a flat 10% attack speed on headshots talent would be great. The crit build classes with weapons like the sword and dagger or A&F would still run swift slaying, but people using the slower 2 handed weapons would get some use out of this. The 2 handed hammers light attack aims right for the head as well. Same with Ex Sword heavy and glaive heavy. It’d be an alternative to swift slaying on these weapons. A case to use it on weapons like the rapier could even be made. Guaranteed 10% attack speed all the time with decent aim or RNG 20% with swift slaying.

I think that would actually be more interesting on the ranged weapons. Do you want 25% more damage or ammo sustainability? Not to say it couldn’t work on melee. But this would be insane on Zealot and UC who already get 30% and 60% more damage. Same for the WS who already has 50% more headshots damage.

Well, about 2h hammer on Kruber, you can’t kill a CW in 3 hits, dodge range and count are ridiculous and when you hit you can’t run. In FK add 15% attack speed turn hammer in an OK weapon only if you add 10% of movement speed. There are a lot of weapon with too much movility and power so… for break 2h is needed so much, much and much buff

1 Like

Would be great on some weapons and useless on others, which is how it should be. Stacking won’t be a problem because there’s already a cap on bonus damage (100% max bonus from either heads or crits or both combined). Still, I’d keep it lower at more like 15% which is comparable to the talents on careers like waystalker.

1 Like

25% flat headshot damage covers an insane number of breakpoints. But something like that could be viable if you had to give up swift slaying and the other traits to get it.

2 Likes

Yes, +2% speed and 5 stacks should be a well balanced trait for 2h hammer

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