I think you shouldn’t be able to get temporary HP on ranged kills.
Well to be honest im not a big fan of temporary HP anyway.
Trading getting damage for making kills should never be an option in my opinion.
It makes high DPS classes way to tanky.
But i know im pretty alone with that opinion.
A least it is challenging in melee to make enough kills to counter the damage you get, even with a very aggresive playstyle.
But this doesn’t apply to ranged.
It is especially weird on sienna and bardin because they can just constanly vent with temp HP.
In V1 you did only vent if it was really necesarry. I never spammed attacks with Sienna in V1 like i can do it in V2.
I always tried to vent before i got into overcharge. Make a few attacks then vent and repeat. I think this balanced Sienna quiet well. She was way more challenging to play and still very strong.
In generall it is way to easy to build up tons of temp HP just by using the ranged weapon.
Ranged is to strong right now in my opinion anyway.
This would at least nerf it a tiny little bit.
Right now i havn’t tried Legend. Is it different on the highest difficulty? Is it then maybe not so useful anymore?
What do you think?
I think you shouldn’t be able to get temporary HP on ranged kills.
No, temp hp is genius and it’s what gives V2 its blazing tempo. Without it, we couldn’t have such epic battles. V1 is way slower than V2.
Agreed. This is not vermintide 1. I’m sure that the devs have a plan for this game that is more than "vermintide 1, but more. "
I’m also sure that having stronger ranged options is part of that, especially with the increased armoured presence.
My thought on the tanks dps critique is in the same vein. We’re not dealing with exclusively trash, making dps have a little more longevity isn’t necessarily wrong.
Edit: temp health also allows for some intense clutch moments, which I would argue contributes to a more enjoyable game in general than purism in this case.
Plus tanks can still do extreme DPS.
I have no trouble building temp HP during melee.
My opinion is that it is a good thing, especially on the higher difficulties.
Depending how I build Sienna I still need to vent at times.
Temp HP indeed makes any character “tanky” in that they can take a few hits, even on low permanent health. But the more fragile careers are still fragile, and go down fast from good hits (and on Legend, even from trash hits). While for some careers, getting temp health on ranged kills too is certainly very easy and powerful, removing it completely would, imo, ruin a big part of the usual playstyle for both those fragile ranged careers and others. (For reference, when on low hit points, I like to blast once or twice into a horde if possible, just to build a little buffer against random strikes, even on more melee-centric careers.) Some toning down might be good, either for ranged only or health-on-kill in general, depending on what the devs actually want(ed) it to do. It certainly isn’t balanced with the other level 20 Talents.
On legend, temp health both is and isn’t as powerful. It’s more important when even slaverats can drop you fast when they get some hits in, and when unaugmented ranged careers (i. e. 100 Hit Points) can drop (almost) completely from a single heavy attack from a Stormvermin, Chaos Warrior or Mauler. Then again, that same amount of damage taken means that the points received from a kill are much less significant individually. So you need that temp HP, but you need to generate a lot for it to be effective.
And Sienna’s problem (on any career) isn’t in venting temp health, as that still takes time and prevents you from fighting or defending for that moment. It’s in huge synergy between her weapon Traits and other things, and her “full vent on skill use” Talents.
i actually preferred v1’s sustain model vs v2’s temp health.
in v1, mistakes made you buckle down and ensured good dmg avoidance. any hit you take can be slowly repaired by getting regrowth ticks on enemies - hordes were a great source of both ammo and hp, and you could even clear dying status by regenerating enough health. i feel that this model promotes good play more by actually rewarding it.
in v2, it seems that combat uptime is favoured more than good play - if you kill a lot, it doesn’t matter if you take some damage, temp hp will cover it, and if you use natural bond like i do, nevermind if you take some friendly fire here and there.
it also doesn’t quite make sense lore wise, i can get the whole vampire-trait sucking health from victims, but generating a shield from kills and crits?
Imo it’s the same thing only faster and more dynamic. V1 was basically: “I’m damaged. Turtle and farm Regrowth.” V2 is: “I’m damaged, I need to min:max this situation to determine whether it’s time to turtle or time to press the attack to generate temp health.” Since we know we’re getting health on kills, we have more variation on the play. In V1, Cata at least, you can’t rely on RNG procs to keep you alive if you’re sustaining damage.
There were just way fewer enemies to deal with in V1.
but that’s the thing. damage avoidance was a priority then, which i feel is a good thing. also, there were actually builds for mass harvesting for the regrowth proc on hordes (people getting back loads of hp from each cleave of the horde) and also, more importantly, you could HEAL back from good play. you can’t do it in v2, temp hp does not equate to true hp.
I feel like it still is, just in a different way. More dynamic and realistic risk assessment in my eyes.
I run NB on most of my builds to solve the true hp issue.
Yeah i was expecting that ^^
I just really ligt that v1 was slower than v2.
I did choose my attack window much more carefull and took way less damage.
Maybe mod support will help me out.
But i can understand that not everybody likes that.
I would still like to see some interresting alternatives on level 20.
But these alternatives would have to be really strong to be as useful as temp HP in my opinion.
You can’t clear dying status without healing supplies in vmt1. Even if you’ve gotten all your green health back through proccing your traits, the second you went down, it’s respawn time.
I kinda like the new temp health system. Creating a buffer for good gameplay. Removing it on ranged wouldn’t be fair for those classes.
yes, you can in vt1. it was a very fun aspect of gameplay for me, teetering on the edge of death, until i finally get enough regrowth ticks to flash my screen back to normal colour, and sigh a breath of relief.
I’m pretty sure you can’t. The edges of your screen kept flashing red even when you got back to max health.
i’m absolutely sure you can. i shall go back to vt1 tonight to relive the glory days and test this out too. i’ll replay the last mission where we get to smash up the red moon inn, that was hella fun!
i agree , would love to see something done to move this game away from CoDtide and towards being a true vermintide sequel. i just dont get the logic of it , they put a lot of effort into the melee only to make it irrelevant and the ranged combat is effective but so basic and simple it makes call of duty look deep and it became the focus. i like shooters i play them , i just don’t see the logic in making a good melee focus game play like a bad range focused one.
not sure what you mean. i’ve played in many legend games where all are melee characters, and we smash things hard too (HM/IB/FK/Zealot for some games, hella fun) you can play ranged if you want, but the melee combat is top tier awesome imo.
edit: i think i have debated with you on this topic before, lol
And ranged was just as OP in V1, if not moreso. I pretty much never have to put ranged away on most characters and the ranged weapon options are generally more powerful versions of everything we have here with a few exceptions.
yeah we been around on this one a few times now
i to have had some great games with melee focused groups , my issue is they are so rare and far between most of the games i join its hobo , bounty hunter, waystalker(actually shade is very popular to) and a pyro/unchained playing as pyro minus whichever one im playing and it just breaks my will to play , i either have to go ranged to do something i find boring or melee to not be able to do something i find fun.
they caved to too much forum crying , didnt fix hero power, nerfed special spawn etc now legend is just the same.