Well yeah, he cant kite because there is a horde around him. Close quarters and all, cant kill them off at range everytime. Cant shoot the blightstormer because hes far behind and obstructed by skaven and/or level geometry. Packmaster fuses with the horde and just yanks you into it. Assassin flies around and there is no time to aim and shoot because you cannot open up your block since you will get stabbed.
I’m sorry but the answer here really is “git good”. If you’ve been surrounded by a horde, then you’ve already done something wrong. Any character, even Sienna, should be able to melee/push and position well enough not to be completely surrounded. Being puked on by a troll happens, but is in 95% of situations your fault. If troll is coming towards you then you should always be making sure you have space to dodge and that timing is well withing your control.
The troll is a boss and as such has significant lead in warning and music and hordes take a bit to build up, so this isn’t something that just happens. And if you say “spawning bug” the issue is the bug not the combo of troll and horde.
The fact that you yourself admit this can be overcome is prolly the most critically important thing. At the highest difficulty you believe you can overcome this situation. IE there is no real issue. If you say "but in 5% of cases it can be broken because “close quarters in this exact place” then I’ll have to ask where specifically? No reason to nerf 95% of the game for a 5% use case. Adjust rules for those areas, assuming it’s even a problem, rather than asking for a blanket nerf to make things easier.
Into the nest, the flooded and overgrown forge room and the entire skaven nest city before the boss.
Empire in flames, entire section between first drop from the house and emerging from the basement, minus the square.
Just two maps as an example. And the mentioned zones are significant enough to not only be “5%” of the time.
If the game had no specials, sure. Such as a packmaster that needs significant amount of damage output to be staggered and leave you alone.
I see it never happened to you then, boss music is happening, all fine and good. Boss gets spotted and engaged. Suddenly, there is a horde without any audible warning, because the boss music has overridden it.
No. I said you. As in the reader. And I only said it so people dont come in here and say “git gud, we have no problems”. I acknowledge that there are groups out there that work very well together and can survive these encounters. But they are probably sitting in any voice chat, have min-maxed gear, thought out their roles and strategies beforehand. Good luck getting that in quick play.
Quote me on that, i have no idea where i mentioned a bug.
You’re telling me you got both a horde and boss music (both significantly delayed) in burning house area of Empire in Flames and that you were unable to choose one of the forked paths OR use the roof areas to get to a non-chokepoint for the boss?
2 players by themselves could easily bash a path through a horde and there is no area there where you are forced down a single path. Even the on fire part offers you multiple ramps and/or rooftops and once you exit that you have areas with indoors and branching paths and rooftops there as well.
You don’t have a wide open field, but you have options to be sure and with teamwork you can utilize all of them. If you expect not to need teamwork on the highest difficulty, then you’ve got the wrong game.
This is called moving the goal posts. You said “NO more hordes and bosses spawning simultaneously, PLEASE.” You made absolutely no mention of special in your title or original post. Stick to your original premise or abandon it as a failed and incorrect premise. You can’t really do both. If you want to move the goal posts you’ll have to admit your original assertion is wrong, without your new addition.
First of all, that’s a separate issue and if you said “all hordes should give proper warning” I’d be somewhat conficted but likely agree. Secondly, at the very worst case rare scenario: you get the first wave that can be handled by a single person at least well enough to get breathing room and help from their team. For this to coincide perfectly with the troll arriving to leave you in such a state where you could not adjust would be really low odds. Now, if people react slowly or have poor communication? That’s still on them. The highest difficulty absolutely should require a good group of coordinated, quickly reacting, fairly skilled individuals. That’s the entire point of being the highest difficulty.
Never said you did. Read more, skim less.
I love how you ignore the glaring issue I already spoke about. Quick. Play. If the developers want to entice you to participate in quick play, which they clearly do, they have to adjust things like this for quickplay. I dont want this to turn into old vt1 where you get a bunch of bot mods and run through the mission alone.
I already added a few people i met in quickplay to my friendslist, but they are not always available at my current play shedule.
Im sorry for assuming that you would be aware enough to include a base mechanic of the game into the issue by yourself. Specials and hordes are no problem. Bosses and specials are no problem. All three combined, depending on the quantity, the boss and the special types, makes for extremely frustrating situations.
So let me get this straight: you effectively put words into my mouth that you can then debate, and when i respond to it you try to make me look like an idiot. Sorry if i upset you so much in the other thread yesterday, but that together with your first sentence about “git gud” makes me stop seeing you as a credible person. Just the usual condescending postnumber-farming bored forum poster. I have given up trying to bring my point across, as you clearly are only interested in debating and arguing. Another victory for your wall, if you need to see it that way.
why would the devs change quickplay behavior as compared to custom games? there is no difference in a group of 4 players playing in a private game vs 4 players in quickplay technically. they all have access to mics and chat, and since the legend difficulty has been reduced, you don’t really need that, just a couple of aware players who know how to position themselves and maximise combat.
also, this is another thread with similar issue.
Am I missing something here? Time your hordes before you cross boss triggers. If it’s been a while since you’ve seen a horde and you’re coming up on a well-known area for bosses, it’s fine to take a breather and wait for the horde before proceeding.
It’s the hardest difficulty in the game. If you choose to do that with pugs, those are risks you accept. It’s my primary method of play, I knowingly accept the risks every time I que up. I am making an informed decision that could lead to groups that can breeze Legend or fail veteran. This is the price I knowingly pay to “play quickly” instead getting an organized group of people to run with.
Ad Hominem simply because you know you were wrong. You didn’t mention specials once originally, that’s the literal fact and I will continue to draw attention to that. Just like I will continue to mention you moving the goal posts.
Welcome to Vermintide.
Again, never said you said it. Repeatedly asserting I did does not change the black and white visible in the thread above. I premptively dealt with a common fallacious argument that you had not made, yet, but were likely to. Which is why I said “IF you say”, quite deliberately. It all makes sense in context, if you bother to read the context.
More ad hominem. If you are confident in your arguments you shouldn’t need to rely on character assassination or attempts to poison the well. Good arguments and good logic stand on their own.
That’s fine, you can decide other people are not credible if you want. However that is a slippery slope of blindness and ego that I do not advise going down. The moment you start dismissing swathes of comments based off of subjective individual points, you only embrace a blind POV.
Yet more ad hominem. You’re really not very secure in your points at all with so many direct attacks in your post. Again, rely on the strength of your arguments, not how barbed your tongue is.
You accuse me of putting words in your mouth the same post you also present yourself as an authority on my motivations. Holding both of these stances is hypocrisy.
If you had given up trying to get your point across, you would not have made this post :).
I honestly and truly pity the person who thinks they achieved “victory” on an internet forum. Not only because any achievable victory on a forums is not an individual thing, but because the central conceit of forums and social media is the exchange of ideas and discussing things. The mere idea of victory is the anti-thesis of this, the placing of ego before learning or the self before the whole. It’s actually quite arrogant.
Any personal “victory” only comes from groups of people getting a game they want, and always at the expense of others not getting the game they want. A bittersweet situation at best. And not ours to decide either :). Thankfully, the actual victory has little to do with you or I but instead is Fatshark’s to determine. That victory entails: “Did we make something we are happy with? Did we make a good profit?” As long as those two answers are yes, they are continuing to be victorious and the rest of us are just along for the ride. And if we don’t like the ride we give feedback, and if that’s not the direction they head…we get another ride :). That’s just what being a consumer is right? Our victory lies in making the right choices for us, and hopefully becoming better as consumers and players. At least in my eyes.
I hope this thread keeps going because I am getting an excellent education in logic and debate thx to @Ralathar44
also, it’s great entertainment while working!
I’m just a dood lol. But if there is one actually worthwhile piece of advice I can give from years of customer service: Don’t take anything personally. The reality is the other person does not know you and does not care who you are at all. They only care about their own personal desires and the labels they assign to you. To that end they will try to bait you, try to attack you, and try to destabilize your mental state, but only for their own selfish goals. They are not in a “battle” against you, but rather they are in a “battle” against an impediment to their goals. You are an obstacle, a thing to them. Not human, not personal. They make take dismissal of their ideals personally, but that is a self contained thing that’s about them and not you.
Research, knowledge, humility, etc are all long term goals that require constant vigilance and effort. As is understanding the areas you can speak of in an informed manner or not. These are things that can take months or years to develop and there is always more room to grow. But not taking things personally, because you realize it was never personal to start with, is a big thing that can be put into practice within a few weeks or sooner. Emotion is the enemy of logic and if you are awash in emotion then you will screw up and you will be vulnerable to manipulation. It’s not about killing emotion, but putting it in it’s own little box while you think and using it as a double check for logic and logic as a double check for emotion to maintain empathy AND reasoning. Being it’s master rather than being mastered by it.
All of that, prolly sounds a little pretentious haha. But after 6 years working in a bar and 3 in tech support it is, best as I can tell, the single most valuable truth when in group discussions. The second one being the message in this clip : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuaHRN7UhRo
I think that the possibility of having multiple encounters at the same time is one of the best parts of the game.
There is a strong random factor that makes the same maps to play a little different every time.
Sadly, I think that too much is already scripted encounters. These can be nice, but should not be the same every time.
Pay attention to a few games. Horde timers are quite predictable and so are patrol/boss spawns.
Maybe try a few solo games.
I’ve never seen a more pretentious and fake person on the internet. Congratulations, you truly are a snowflake. I myself are also a supreme gentleman who uses big words and has a tab about arguing fallacies open at all times tips fedora. Us intelectuals should stick together and spend our time on educating those of lower emotional understanding. You truly are a beacon of hope in those troubled times
drinks mtn dew
And on topic:
There is no problem with difficulty but in some extreme cases the director just say LMAO GET B& and there is nothing you can do about it and you will wipe, it’s rare but you always remember the worst scenarios more. That shouldn’t happen.
I would rather not make playing a game, in this case vermintide, into a checklist that I run down everytime I play a round. Playing videogames is for fun, and should never reach extreme amounts of calculations and knowledge of exactly how things like spawns work. Developers dont tell you these things for a reason, and a good one to that. Knowing where boss triggers are is not the way the game should be played, in MY honest opinion. Waiting several minutes on a ledge for a horde to spawn is unnatural, and should not be promoted. If you choose to do all of this, that is fine with me. But I dont think its too much to ask for that I dont need this amount of intimate code knowledge to beat a round of legend.
I have played 400 hours of vt1, might not sound like much compared to others, but its still significant. I have played alot of cata, and I have never felt cheated out of my victory. I could always trace it back to a mistake I made that I was aware of, and not the game bombarding me with bodies of varying sizes and shapes. Now, for people that like to take things out of context, I am NOT saying that every wipe I have on legend is the game’s fault. Like @Guziol said, its the bad ones that stick in your memory. Im not even talking about silent chaos patrols getting stuck behind something and get supremely triggered, which also cost me quite alot of runs. Since that is a bug, and a well known one, Ill not elaborate futher.
Mini boss Horde spawns are one of the elements of variety my group love about this game. Some runs go our way… Others don’t… And that’s what keeps us on our toes and makes the game thrilling.
I agree with you. I have nothing against trash mobs accompanying the boss. I do have a problem with full 3-wave hordes that either need only the best equipment (drakegun, beam staff) equipped to deal with them quickly, or intense amount of teamplay. Sadly, either is lacking in quickplay, the main way Fatshark wants this game to be played.
I guess I am lucky I mostly play as a 4 on discord… Haven’t heard much banter in the game chat.
Not saying it might not be an issue, but most of the time when I get a horde during a boss, then I first and foremost worry about the horde, because the troll is super slow,rat ogre is easy to kite and chaos spawn is easy to dodge (as long as it doesn’t grab you from double melee distance). I get hordes during bosses might be frustrating, but they’re doable and I wouldn’t call them unfair, so I see no reason to remove them.
I mostly play solo Q on champ/legend, with no voice comms.
ye horde, specials and boss are not a problem at all. legend is easy.
chaos spawn + gasrat, assassin and leech, all wipe. Well lets do another try, it doesnt happen again: legend is easy, well balanced difficulty.
Never seen a player actively having the time to clear a horde behind the chaos spawn kiting player when there are 3 specials with high priority, and the one kiting WILL get stuck in a horde and hit by chaos spawn. Saw it happen multiple times on “big” streamers, my own games pubs / and or premade.
patch 126.96.36.199 is out and the difference is immense. Can clear legend with a friend and 2 bots, which was a pure gambling game before the patch, pubs are still highly dependant on the team and thats how it should be - you get punished for not playing together, not for having bad rng.