I understand that we want havoc to be difficult. I enjoy the challenge as well. However, in its current form with the new modifiers it makes completing damn near impossible. It’s not even about the modifiers, they can be dealt with. It’s mostly due to the new spawning mechanic. There doesn’t seem to be a limit to the amount of enemy that can spawn including bosses. I have had attempts where the twins spawn, on top of a normal miniboss, on top of weakened minibosses. All alive at the same time while normal horde elites and disablers spawn from all corners. If there is a disrupt the ritual modifier, there have been times where normal demonhosts were sitting right next to the ritual demonhost forcing us to wake it up, all while there was a horde with a shield boss and minibosses.
To put it simply, there is an unfair amount of BS in havoc at the moment and it needs to be looked at.
I reached havoc 40 and changed my opinion. The mode is fun and should stay how it is. However, I think the ritual demonhosts spawns should be adjusted to be on a set timer and slow down as you kill some ritualists.
As far as deranking goes. I think it motivates people to really try instead of fooling around so no adjustment is necessary.
The demotion system absolutely needs to be removed. It just adds more pressure to those who want to complete the high havocs which are already challenging as is. It also discourages newer players from trying to learn/get experienced with havoc when they get punished for trying to progress.
I think the changes to Gunners is pushing havoc in a better direction, melee enemies feel like more of a threat now and the additional bosses (and twins) do add to the challenge of havoc.
That being said, playing many havoc 30+ missions, the number of times that there have been 5+ bosses at once is too high. For me, I had multiple games recently with twin bosses spawned, another captain, a normal boss and another weakened boss.
For those runs in particular if you don’t have incredibly skilled players with boss killing/meta loadouts then they can be pretty much impossible (especially if you’re not playing with a pre-made team).
The extra hordes and other spawns are fine on their own and add to the challenge, but the increased hordes combined with many bosses at the same time does make the mode feel unfair/unfun. If there was a limit to 2-3 bosses being active at once and perhaps spacing the hordes out slightly more while the bosses were active I think havoc would be perfect.
I agree with this, If the demotion system goes then this type of havoc would be acceptable. You could at least keep tying the mission until you win. Right now it’s incredibly punishing to play with anyone that isn’t running meta builds.
I just want less monster spawns. it’s not fun to lose a match to a ritual DH; completely blocked by a Beast of Nurgle and Chaos Spawn, ontop of the horde of elites.
The reason tons of bosses spawns is because they decided to base spawns on distance traveled rather than checkpoint based. So if you run too far ahead to try and stop a demonhost ritual you may risk spawning tons of extra bosses.
I guess with a well put together team. One person deletes boss, the other three do other jobs like horde clearing and aoe stagger, killing specials and elites.
I do think the demotion system is terribad though.
Other than deranking needing to be removed, there are some gameplay changes that could be ideal
Scab Captains should not be able to spawn with The Encroaching Garden effect
Hienous Rituals should be on a fixer timer (2 mins probably?) regardless of distance between the Strike Team and the Ritual itself (this is because it only tracks the distance, without considering obstacles and map layouts)
Hienous Rituals should disable normal Daemonhosts from spawning
Weakened Monster spawns should be disabled as long as the Twins are alive
(Optional, completely personal suggestion that’s not required) Twins should always spawn at a specific point in a mission, I think this would be a lot more dramatic and cool
REMOVE POX GAS MUTATOR ALREADY FROM THE MODE, this kind of Mutators do NOT fit in Havoc (We already suffered because of The Blight Spreads)
all that needs to be done is remove demotion, allow players to pick and choose the exact difficulty they want to play on then generate the modifiers after the fact
Get rid of the visibility modifiers or give us a carryable light source like in VT2, let us re-roll at least one modifier with dockets/resources. (here, money for batteries, turn the lights back on!)