New difficulty - Suggestion

[Ralendil]

Edit: first thread had a bug…

As a result of all discussions happening, I would like to suggest a new board. So here a poll about this idea…
I have chosen to only put Yes / No as choice to make easy to read the results.
Description of the proposition is under polls.

Would you like a 6th difficulty between Auric and Havoc?

• Yes
• No
• I have no opinion on this topic

Why a proposition for a new difficulty?

• Havoc is a game mode made for a tiny part of the players that want to get the highest difficulty possible
• Auric has become an elite / special spawn fiesta
• We have got Mortis Trial that is aiming at casual, Havoc that aims the hard core players that like close to impossible difficulties, we have auric that is a little more difficult than regular… We don’t have something between Auric and Havoc.

---

Would you agree with an elite resistance + infinite horde as a base for a new difficulty board?

• Yes
• No
• I have no opinion on this topic

What is the proposition?

The basic mission would have elite resistance on this board, like in auric it is always high intensity.
And you could have “high intensity” that would be a different horde management…

What is Elite resistance?:

@FatsharkQuickpaw

New Condition: Elite Resistance

With Elite Resistance, fewer but stronger enemies are spawned. It also changes Specialists’ spawns to be more opportunistic and makes hordes more dangerous on the few occasions they spawn. All of these changes create a very different gameplay loop that is more slow and tactical but very punishing if players make mistakes.

About Infinite hordes:
Personally, I am tired of the specials spawn fiesta. I don’t ask that they are less dangerous… But, as you may have read, Elite resistance was making specials a real threat. So high intensity would mean something else on this board.
I dont know when they changed hordes, I clearly don’t remember. But, by the past we had time based horde and we have now progression based horde spawns.
I would like to request that they change hordes to something time based… I really want to see again a team surrounded… this was happening by the past, it does not occur actually.
To be honest, I would like something close to the bug we had on heresy for some time… when we had infinite horde spawning.
I don’t ask necessarily that, even if it was the best games I did. But a system that will always spawn horde during the entire mission. The timing between waves would be adjusted by the AI director.

---

Counter proposition: No board would be created but 3 missions of the Auric board would be reserved for these conditions (6 missions per difficulty)

• Yes
• No
• I have no opinion on this topic

How it would work?

On the 4 missions proposed, we would have:

• 1 high int
• 1 high int shock troop gauntlet
• 1 elite resistance
• 1 elite resistance + infinite hordes

There would be also the addition to 2 more missions:

• 1 high int with or without STG + one special condition (pox gas, power supply, ventilation)
• 1 elite resistance with or without infinite hordes + one special condition (pox gas, power supply, ventilation)

---

Would you like mixed hordes to replace normal hordes of the actual game?

• Yes
• No
• I have no opinion on this topic

How it would work?

They would introduce mixed hordes with groaners (unarmored), poxwalkers (infected) and moebian (flak).
The Director would modify the ratio (mission based and / or event based).
The idea is to keep the infected enemies and have also unarmored and flak in the hordes. So, no weapon can specialize to kill horde just with one perk.

It could be also
From Heretical_Cactus
“I’d rather then have:
Groaner → Moebian 21st → Scab Bruiser…
And
Poxwalker → New thing → Dreg Bruiser…”
The vote is about the principle of a mixed horde that has infected / unarmored / flak enemies.

[Heretical_Cactus]

Doesn’t work still

[Ralendil]

Ok found the problem

The quote in the hidden section was bugging the polls 3 and 4… How? don’t know… and don’t care.

This is a Discourse problem (the forum developers)

As a result, I could not quote you .

Corrected the first topic

[CopperBack1]

Yah I found quoting and polls can cause bugs too.

I think they changes the format for quotes to “>” instead of “quote”

@Ralendil

The quote in the hidden section was bugging the polls 3 and 4… How? don’t know… and don’t care.

=“Ralendil, post:3, topic:107056”
testing quote

Yah can’t quite link it like traditional quote… so far. Somehow i think the brackets of [ quote ] [ /quote ] interfere with [ poll ] [ /poll]

Seems to be working on your 1st post now maybe just remove content from this OP unless I’m mistaken on which is the post now.

[Ralendil]

Yes I think we can discuss in first topic.

I just hope that moderator don’t delete the first… but considering the discussion started there and that I have fixed the bug, it should not happen.

[CopperBack1]

Well dang, they uh took your delete very seriously… did you do it twice by chance for this post too?

The thought to salvage other posts while still on my screen came too late, back refreshing did not work… post 107055 gone

@Ralendil

And possibility to select infinity hordes

I see no “possibility” mention in OP verbiage otherwise I would say yes =) Crtl+F “poss” also agrees =p

@Ralendil

Cause it is not possible.

Hmm, do you recall the VT2 lobby added late in its lifecycle this is all i suggest unless they could optimize it to other fashions. If it could or not interact with Havoc at a base level of 0 and leave the higher content premade restrictions to the Havoc20+ or whatever cut off.

I think a highlight would be optional suggested things like rotating events, special assignment, maelstrom, mortis… probably would excuse havoc.

[souI23]

Premise: general speech, not against the OP… but you mates are absolutely insatiable!

Despite the fact that the game is in serious shortage of content: weapons, maps, enemies, factions, characters, talents trees…

…despite the fact that the former highest difficulty (Maelstorm) was still dominated only by a small percentage of players…

…you’ve been so loud that developers invested time and resources in Havoc… a totally unbalanced and unfair mode (as you aimed) that inherits the exact same flaws as its counterpart in Vermintide 2…

…and incredibly still you are not satisfied. You’re still here rumbling about adding new difficulties

Mates, stop it, please. Let developers focus on new contents

[Ralendil]

here the posts from the other thread (deleted)

[CopperBack1]

@souI23

Premise: general speech, not against the OP… but you mates are absolutely insatiable!

@souI23

Despite the fact that the game is in serious shortage of content: weapons, maps, enemies, factions, characters, talents trees…

@souI23

Mates, stop it, please. Let developers focus on new contents

sounds like you share it too =p

I don’t know what the right course is either…

[Ralendil]

Tbh…

This is a different experience… The opposite of Auric

Not necessarily more difficult, but different

If you’re curious, play it in solo and you’ll see the difference. They have increased, in actual game, by a lot the specials/elites spawns, so much than it is a pity.

Actually, what I would like is a difficulty handled differently. Something close to what we had before patch 13.
More horde, less elite but biggest threat and less special but coming at worst moments.

[Pirx]

as i said so often, havoc is a complex solution to a simple issue (the game having become too easy for a good team due to power creep, meta weapons, more experienced players)

someone else would just have taken monstrous specialists, added brutes and large, mixed hordes (moebians, exploding heads) , perhaps limited the amount of health one can gain at med stations, made enemies tougher, and quickplayed it.

no need to reinvent the wheel with rankings and party finder when the game allegedly doesn’t have a scoreboard to avoid toxicity.

[Ralendil]

Well tbh, i don’t like the direction they have followed. I don’t say that it is bad. I think it is something that please a lot of players.

But actually, we have reached a limit. We see 15-20 dregs ragers spawned… This is totally stupid.

i prefer to see 1 that is a real threat and a 5 of them being a nightmare.
I want yo be pressured by mixed horde all the time to feel that I carry my weight in a war zone…

I feel that the players that always want more, more spawns, more difficulty, more etc. Have their mode. It is called havoc.
I want less elites, but more dangerous. I want less specials, but coming at the worst moment (and no trapper in middle of hordes). I want monstrosities that resist more than 1 minute. I want a constant pressure by mixed hordes. So really a different experience.
But true… This would need that they balance the game… Even a little

[Pirx]

Going back to Auric missions really puts the Havoc strengths and weaknesses into perspective

exactly this. darktide puts emphasis on situational awareness, positioning and threat prioritization. yet so many people lack this. they do whatever, which is probably right in their view, just not what the mission requires. i’m not so fond of some havoc modifiers, but at least people tend to stick together more in havoc, rather than running off like chicken. imo, a more interesting balance is around fewer, but dangerous enemies instead of enemy spam. like by the throne, a crusher! not why do…

one of my earlier posts on this topic

[zircuits]

I really don’t think the problem with darktide is a 6th difficulty, but mostly balance. Elite resistance would have the exact same problems as normal darktide, where players are simply too fast, aoe too prevalent, and single target dps too high. Havoc gets away by throwing a ton of monsters and having a lot of ambients, but the hordes themselves are relatively weak in comparison to everything else, but you can still rush to the end. Elite resistance removing enemies from the game makes it a kinda dead modifier.

[Ralendil]

Then maybe they could spawn infinite mixed horde in front on the player if someone is away of the group and ahead?

[OxygenCrimson]

And if that player dies then the horde is suddenly on the remaining three players who stuck together but are now being punished for the fourth players’ mistakes? It already happens with disablers, a horde to bog them down to boot would result in them having even harder time when trying to rejoin.

Once again: the problem with Darktide is not that it got too easy because the enemies have been roughly standing in place, with some nerfs and some buffs. It’s that Fatshark refuses to nerf even the most blatantly out-of-line choices such as Voice of Command, Duelling Sword or Electrokinetic Staff which is why players are becoming more and more powerful.
This would be fine if it was a consequence of “horizontal” progression where more choices are available to us so some combinations that emerge would necessarily be better than others but that’s not the case - it’s vertical progression where things such as Dueling Sword and Plasma Gun just outperform any other choices in their respective classes and are being left unaddressed. Fatshark is scared to step on the “no nerfs in my PvE game” crowds’ foot and it’s ruining the experience.

Besides I like the level of intensity of regular Damnation, even if it’s too easy. If you ramp up spawns the game gets more intense and faster when it’s already very hectic.
Instead of ramping up the numbers or intensity what we need is for the overtuned player power to finally be trimmed so the base difficulties are challenging again. We used not to have Auric at all, back in those days Damnation was quite challenging - now it’s a cakewalk. I was already on the flatter end of skill curve at that point, so how come it suddenly became trivial?

Voice of Command, Duelling Sword and other such things is why.

[DornIvanotic]

Elite resistance just removed all the enemies for a handful of strong ones, kinda pointless.

[zircuits]

Hordes aren’t the reason that players get forced to back pedal. You need a clown car to flood a doorway that is the only way forward for that player, and the bigger issue upon that is that if they bring stealth they just wait for the clown car to empty and keep progressing. It’s one of the many reasons why stealthlots can just beat any map on any difficulty right now solo.

If they don’t nerf mobility and stealth anytime soon then at the very least they need to add more triggers to base damnation and place boss walls that prevent player progression, and maybe even add in mini-events that lock players into areas to force them to use less space. The more open the map currently the easier the game is.

[Ralendil]

@OxygenCrimson

And if that player dies then the horde is suddenly on the remaining three players who stuck together but are now being punished for the fourth players’ mistakes? It already happens with disablers, a horde to bog them down to boot would result in them having even harder time when trying to rejoin.

in the scenario of infinite horde… yes…
Cause it means if we place the horde spawns ahead of players, then the rusher has to face all horde spawns…

@zircuits

If they don’t nerf mobility and stealth anytime soon then at the very least they need to add more triggers to base damnation and place boss walls that prevent player progression, and maybe even add in mini-events that lock players into areas to force them to use less space. The more open the map currently the easier the game is.

I asked several times to nerf shroudfield AND the Cdr…
Problem is… Fatshark wants only buffing

@DornIvanotic

Elite resistance just removed all the enemies for a handful of strong ones, kinda pointless.

I understand you don’t like. I understand several are happy to see 15 dreg ragers as the new normal spawn. I don’t. I feel that dreg ragers are no more a real threat. The threat is the trapper actually. Out of the trappers, there is no real big threat. Except the insane spawn (2 monstrosities + loads of things).
I don’t like seeing 15 maulers, 22 dreg ragers, 16 shotgunners 8 crushers, 4 bulwark, 2 reapers and 32 groaners or poxwalkers…
I would prefer something like 3 dreg ragers, 2 maulers, 4 shotgunners, 1 crusher 1 bulwark and 150 hordes enemies… and that these elites means something.

[DornIvanotic]

Trash is not a threat, what you are asking for is Mortis Trials.