Very true, it chips away at the coherency of the world. I could see resistant elites if their number was reduced, though with a few caveats:
First, Dreg Ragers should put reduced pressure on the player by eg. being a bit slower during their combo and having to come closer to start it (instead of the current 8m away). Yes the reduced spawns would also reduce the pressure by themselves, but right now whenever you’re being put into a situation with a few of them - say, two or three - it is a viable tactic to just take some damage in order to butcher your way through them. If their resistance was increased that would no longer be as valid and hard CC would be even more important. I believe it to be a bad direction.
Second, the ranged elites should be just toned down in number. Their damage is already immense and only bearable because of how prevalent the overtuned resistance options are (Voice of Command, Enduring Faith and such). Scab Gunner could have its survivability buffed, Dreg Gunner is already very tanky as it is right now thanks to the +200 HP. Unless they are made immobile again (so that they cannot chase you around corners as easily), their resistance should not be increased.
Also one thing: if you reduce the number of Elites and increase their resistance, this necessarily results in Elite kills being much more rare and precious. Mechanics that rely on killing Elites should be revised if your suggestion was to be implemented (like eg. Confirmed Kill on Veteran, Dominate on Ogryn or Gloryhunter on Revolver, Bolt Pistol and Grenadier Gauntlet).
Overall, I feel like this elite resistance alongside reduced their number should be simply the direction for the game to go in and not implemented as a new difficulty. Infinite horde could be built into Auric, or as a separate modifier. I don’t see a reason to fragment and complicate the game any further.
To be fair, almost nobody actually asked for Havoc. Mostly people wanted more control over mixing and matching auric modifiers, picking maps they wanted, and maybe additional auric modifiers being created to allow for greater spiciness being added to their missions.
You can’t really blame the hardcore demographic for not being entirely satisfied with what they were given. That’s really on Fatshark for bungling the havoc release.
I do kinda think they’d be better just making havoc improvements over making a new difficulty though. Probably less time investment for a possibly similar end goal
I mean in VT2 Cata (to some extent), and to a greater extent modded difficulties, trash was made to be a real threat. I think shield trash and shield vermin definitely helped as disrupters to mindlessly hacking trash down.
I guess my point is that what you’re saying is true, but does it have to be that way? Do we really want it to be that way?
See my comment about shield mobs. If all your damage cleave is being blocked things become a lot less trivial, for melee at least.
For ranged this is mostly a Psyker issue, and yeah their “resource” not being a real resource at all is the culprit for many issues.
Regardless not trying to say it would be trivial to make happen. Just the game seems to be actively moving away from this possibility and personally I’m not a fan of that at all.
Sure if they want to take care of Havoc population. But let’s be honest… The Havoc proposition is NOT for everyone.
They can ameliorate as much as they want… I don’t want this artificial difficulty and I guess I am not alone…
Someone pointed that dreg ragers would be deadly if they were resisting a lot more… That’s true. And that’s exactly the change.
So yes I understand that there are people that like the actual propositions. But, and maybe I am alone then, but
I don’t like the artificial difficulty of havoc and the fact they limit the builds you can take with the way they handle difficulty
I don’t like the elite and special spawn fiesta while hordes have become tiny
I feel that regular is now too easy
And of course they don’t balance and don’t give a solo mode. As a result everybody (or at least too many players) pick op talents and weapons… With the actual resistance, a crusher is 2 seconds, dreg ragers are killed by 3 etc.
So yes… I am maybe alone. But Mortis trial is for casual, Havoc clearly not something I can enjoy and regular too easy. I chain for several months Auric missions where it is elite / special spawn fiesta and that I dislike. That’s why I ask something.
To be honest I don’t care that it would be a new difficulty… Even if after testing it in solo, I have no doubt that we would have yo adapt cause it changes how you have to play. But having something fun is something I really would want. Because I am really at the point where I appreciate less and less the game and its development direction
Nobody really wants to talk about the infinite cleave ranged weapons or all class balance + weapon balance as the real cause of the game being too easy
To add to what I said… I was fine with regular damnation regarding elite / special density.
But they ruined that by their successive buffs. And obviously, even with a nerf, it will be minimal and won’t make regular good.
Tbh, since the change of hordes (related to console development) I feel that there is a lot less horde density in damnation.
Anyways, as I said Havoc spirit is clearly not something I can even appreciate. The rank demotion is just one of the Havoc features that make this game mode toxic. The difficulty and the fact a lot of builds are bad in this mode make this game toxic.
And making easier won’t make this game mode good. As I said, this is the spirit of this game mode that is not for me (and I guess a lot of others).
If you again buff players, it will make havoc more accessible. Not more interesting. And you will create a problem for players that want and enjoy this game mode.
I mean I do! Just hard not to lose steam on that when FS seems to be going in the opposite direction. Hence why we’re seeing more threads about adding difficulty levels etc.
I just do think it also relates to the design of the horde mobs as well. Obviously their design doesn’t matter so much if player power is so high they get instantly steamrolled anyway. But it is a factor.
Personally I’d love to see a big nerf patch but again, hard not to feel like that is a fruitless endeavour to push for at this point.
Sure I don’t disagree, but I also appreciate the feelings of less hardcore players saying it’s time for content, and that FS has spent enough time catering to hardcore players.
Yeah havoc misses for a lot of people, but I still feel like the bones of it are fine enough that continued improvements would be a more economical use of dev time to keep hardcore players engaged.
I mean again ideally I’d love to see a huge balance pass to bring down player power significantly, then reduce elite density, while significantly increasing horde density and frequency (talking about base game missions here, not havoc). I also completely understand giving up on that goal, since it looks increasingly unlikely (and unless handled very well could easily cause MASSIVE backlash).
Also just gonna take a moment to be a bit smug here and point out that from basically day 1 I’ve been saying that repeatedly buffing players then adding new difficulty levels isn’t a sustainable or enjoyable long term strategy to game balance, and I feel supremely vindicated in that stance from where we’ve ended up with the overall game state.
I also have little motivation to log in these days and it’s mostly because the entire feel of the game has shifted so far into something I don’t enjoy nearly as much as pre patch 13, despite how relatively limited builds and “good” options were back then.
It won’t happen… they will increase the spawns, as they always do.
They are afraid of the players reaction if they nerf things too strong. And they pushed so far the buffs, that they would have to implement a massive nerf. Sure, it won’t happen. It could have happened 1 year ago, but things have gone too far. How can you compare the PG with an Agri revolver? Lot of things are now weak cause of these buffs. How many players you see using Brauto nowadays? few… How many use a IAG not columnus MK V? few… even IAG is less taken considering the option of Boltgun. Etc.
This was a giant buff fiesta, and I am sure they will buff zealot (i just hope the shroudfield build won’t be buffed).
At this point, I really don’t believe one second they will nerf, or if they nerf that it will be enough. But they will surely buff weaker weapons…
So, the solution is clearly to increase the ennemies HP. And elite resistance is that.
When I say elite resistance, I mean here the spirit behind this condition. So less elite / special, but with more resistance. What is important for me is to have the possiblity to return to something that is close to the spirit of the game at its beginning. An elite was a threat. Actually an elite is just a CDR (and btw, less elite means also less CDR from psyker and for ogryn / veteran means less ability use and that means a little more difficult - Doesn’t change the fact IoD is too strong ).
Maybe, but it was implemented just before the console release.
I was mid editing my post to respond to you when you posted this. Yes I understand your stance. You might notice I voted largely in favour of your ideas.
It’s a decent band-aid solution, and I don’t think there’s any perfect solution at this point. Over buffing players is like a Pandora’s box. Almost impossible to undo. I still lament that we’ll probably never see the best long term solution (big balance pass, player and elite density nerfs).
Honestly might just give up on Darktide and go back to VT2 next time I need a Tide fix. At least that game still somewhat understands the importance of pacing, and keeping player power in check.
I would have been 100% agree with this, in fact it was something I suggested a while back as well, in response to a user asking for a T6 with simply more HP and dmg enemies
Sadly we are here… they need to increase enemies HP. Sad but true.
Every patch they increase the spawning numbers. Will we continue like that until we see a horde of 60 dreg ragers?
And what I ask here is a game mode / a condition available at all time that would permit to go back to the game how it was at the beginning… so when an elite was a threat and not just a CDR or a toughness replenishment.
I want more hordes instead of more specials/elites. Hordes don’t deliver any bonus when you kill them… and if there is enough thrown on us, it begin to be a true difficulty.
In fact, this is what I would have wanted for Havoc… A different gameplay instead of the same gameplay (special spawns fiesta) pushed for more difficulty with artificial difficulty (hidden modifiers).
Which leads us the only solution: Fatshark must allow us to create custom matches, letting us choose map and modifiers. Kind of like Vermintide’s deeds, but craftable. Then they can indulge in whatever they want, it would be quick and easy to implement add new modifiers. For example a similar modifier was also there on Vermintide: elites with double health
But developing a new T6, to me, and I will die on this hill, remains absolutely wrong… because of the waste of time and resources in something what would have a “bad” gameplay, and I want nothing like it as an “official difficulty”
Specially considering there are others priority, like maps, weapons, etc etc
Btw to me the situation seems to be in line with Vermintide Cataclysm… we have all the right means to get rid of Elites quickly, however the gameplay is unpredictable… and you can equally quickly find yourself unprepared/overwhelmed and die
But I agree about the hordes, they need to be bigger… build on kits and anti-horde options is a waste
However, I am terribly annoyed by only Havoc / Auric proposition. I don’t take into account the regular board. Too much power creep. The regular board is just beginner board now (and that’s sad).
They created my problem by buffing, every patch, the players.
On this I agree.
We should have something like the Solo window in the solo mod.
I would like something like this:
In party finder you could create a mission and choose these settings:
The mission
The difficulty
An environmental condition (ventilation, gas, power supply…)
An intensity modifier (regular, high intensity, histg, havoc horde management, horde infinites (what is described in this thread))
A special condition (none or any condition)
Modifiers (bonus or malus):
Enemies HP (Elite/special - Lesser enemies - Hordes)
Enemies resists (damages toward flak, maniac…)
Enemies damages
Player health
Player toughness
Player damages
Ammunition modifier (that I would not touch, but several seem to like that)
Corruption
Hordes waves density
etc.
In the mission board you could select missions:
with quickplay, the game would populate games created
on the board, by oldest mission creation and filtered by your preferences (examples of filters: histg, Brute conscript, Heresy etc.)
When you create a mission, it would require you wait that players join like the actual havoc. And leaving the screen would remove the mission from the mission board.
).