The part of my message youre referring to essentially is:
Flamethrower: dont like that level of cc or excessive visual effects.
My jump to psyker staves: high level of cc and excessive visual effects.
Thats the only comparison i was making there.
But only one psyker staff is comparable to the flamethrower.
And that one has significantly lower crowd clearing capacity and less obstructive vfx.
2 Likes
Just copying my post from the patch notes thread.
Flamers out right the best zealot weapon if you have some long range team mates.
Flamers biggest weakness is getting shot trying to take it out, long range fire fights are impossible, you see pox bursters you just run to your team or hope your netcode letās you push them back and itās so slow to single target kill you canāt quickly swap to it then pick off a special or shoot a dog off a team mate.
Itās the most powerful because you can clear a massive area extremely quickly and your team can just finish objectives while you lay down massive CC.
You give up a lot of quick reaction power to just gun down high priority targets but get massive aoe cleave.
On high difficulty the trash mobs and giant rager spawns are not the most difficult thing itās the specials and shot gunners who will just pick you off before you can draw the flamer.
āWanna something crispy ?ā flamer zealot probably.
U hv to admit they save ur ass many times. Flamers r handicap vs range enemy its a fair tradeoff imo.
The idea that flamer is the āmost needed balance changeā is pretty laughable.
Veteran is the clear outlier class at the moment, and somehow actually they decided to buff it last patch.
That said, I could see nerfs to flamerās range and ammo to make it a bit more of a niche weapon to clutch when a horde jumps your group, more of an āoh sh*tā backup to your primary (melee) and less of a āgeneral purposeā weapon. And meaning you have to rely a bit more on your team when facing groups of ranged, or really properly try-hard with your melee engagement.
I do NOT think it should be made less effective at the thing it is clearly supposed to be good at, which is penetrating tightly packed groups of enemies. Thatās the whole fun of it. Donāt remove the fun. If thereās one thing this game really does NOT need right now is removing the few things that feel great.
since so many people seem to really enjoy this weapon
if they have to nerf it
why not just
nerf itās ammo pickup rate?
that would make more sense to me because
itās a goddamn heavy flamer
it should feel powerful
in other words
the flamer feels like it does the right amount of damage
so maybe they could focus on nerfing the non-damage related stats
Because it already gives like half a magazine back from small pick ups, so a Zealot with an orange ammo meter can grab 3 and still be orange. That is a nerf to the team not the flamer. They already pac man down every little bag in sight, instead of trading those to teammates for the big bags that will actually sustain the flamer.
Whoeverās doing that isnāt playing it well then.
If you just save flamer for the āoh sh!tā moments, and otherwise stick to melee, then if thereās a Vet on your team you can pretty much go an entire mission without ever picking up ammo. Just 1 ammo-crate refill at some point should be enough on top of the Vet passive.
The same could be said for other ammo-hungry weapons. How many times you seen a Vet with Recon constantly splurging and constantly crying āI need ammoā ?
You canāt balance weapons around the assumption that everyone is an ammo-chomping arsehole.
I would much rather have flamer be high-impact/low-frequency rather than low-impact/high-frequency.
"WANT EM CRISPY"or āMAKE EM CRISPYā (or whatever flamey man says) Second best line in the game! my bro and I do our best impressions at random times for max lols.
Tell the truth I think this is a fair point especially if people are complaining about a low skill floor / ceiling.
I think if people are going to comment on āwell the change effects the whole team and it will result in more ammo being eatenā then you could really argue that with really any ranged weapon adjustment involving ammo or even damage per shot. Ammo would be a fair limiting factor and reducing it would cut down on the main complaint being that itās over used in every situation. What people do after that really isnāt the fault of the balance.
Yeah, I mean, why even bother having Ammo as a mechanic if itās never actually a limiting factor on anything? Just give everyone infinite ammo, that way nobody is ever āa drain on the teamā 
I would much rather have to be conservative with my flamer usage, but have it pump when I need it, than have it be always available but feel limp and unimpactful. Same applies to Bolter.
I have no idea what the scab flamer is saying but that line that sounds like heās yelling CARBON CAUTERIZE YA is my fav. Or OYY ITS ABOUT TO GET HOT. I wish I had half the job satisfaction this dude has.
That is something that a smaller magazine and a longer reload could accomplish.
Or an overheat mechanic that stops you from firing after 3 sec or so.
I agree with this. The few times I run flamer on my zealot, I almost never pick up ammo. As long as thereās a vet in the team, the ammo regen is more than enough for the limited situations I use the flamer for.
I wonder if some people crying about flamer see people using it almost all the time, and as a crutch to almost never have to engage in melee with anything even slightly challenging.
I canāt find myself agreeing to nerf the flamer in range or power, because it does exactly what it needs to do. I could imagine a nerf to the ammo, though, so people canāt use it all the time.
That being said, if some people use it almost the whole match, nerfing the ammo might just make them suck up even more of the ammo supply, so I dunno.
Thereās also a huge difference between premades and random matchmaking. If you know you can rely on your team to take out the ranged, the flamer becomes very good. In my experience with random matchmaking though, bringing the flamer can be very problematic if your team is lacking ranged. (I.e the vet is crap and/or brought a plasmagun).
So at least in PUB matches, the weakness of not having a ranged weapon is absolutely not a weakness to just dismiss by saying āyou can just dodge twice and get into rangeā which some people seem to use.
I really disagree about the nerf on ammunitionsā¦
I think the overheat mecanism would really be better. You wonāt forbid players to pick more and more ammo. It is not cause you act wisely that others willā¦
An overheat mecanism, like psyker has or the plasma gun, would control the use you can do of it.
I donāt think we should get an overheat too fast, but something that would permit to use like 2 fuel canisters before you have to let it cold.
And off course, if you let it go past the limits, you would explode with an effect like a, in game, red barrel.
More like a half canister.
Currently, you can basically clear an entire horde without reloading.
If you could use 2 canisters before getting any problem with oveheat, the overheat mechanic would effectively not exist.
On damnation cleaning the first horde is not being safeā¦ in final sequences, you have to clean the infinite others that will comeā¦
So making the flamer that can clean 2 or even 3 hordes is not opā¦ The problem is the fact you can clean all enemies without having to stop.
The half canister will permit you to continue cleaning hordes. With my flamer I can reload pretty fastā¦
Also, I said 2 cannisters cause I think this is the right amount. But, like any nerf, it has to be balanced. However I must warn about a too strong nerf that can make this weapon a garbage weapon.
We have already 80% of the weapons that are garbage.
Not sure what you mean here.
Currently, using a flamethrower allows the zealot to basically clear an entire horde with one canister. No downtime for reload (max 1 reload), while enemies are coming in.
If the weapon had an overheat mechanic that allows you to dump 2 canisters, what would be the point? It would change absolutely nothing (unless it stops you from using the weapon for solid minutes after that).
Lower the reload speed (so that you can not easily reload under high pressure) and give it an overheat mechanic that makes you stop shooting after dumping 25-50% of a canister (cool down for 15sec or so) and it is still a nutty weapon that allows to mow down everything in your way.
But you would have to think about WHEN to use it and could no longer just spam it continuously throughout the entire duration of every horde encounter.
Instead you would have to switch back and forth between flamethrower and melee weapon (without needing to reload all the time, since overheat comes before mag is empty).
It could also make the primary fire more relevant, outside of boss fights.
Well, we disagree. No problem on that.
I think that the flamer have to be a horde cleaner, or what you propose is to make it a garbage weapon. Who will take such weapon when you can do the same more efficientely with a brauto agri?
The problem with the flamer is that you can full use it. I reload mine in few seconds.
Making a cooldown, lowering the ammo, lowering the fuel canisterā¦ WOW. Read your propositionsā¦ we can either remove the weapon at this stade.
Nerfing a weapon can be done just by making a slight change.
Here we could nerf the flamer just by increasing the time needed to reloadā¦
But I would prefer that the zealot can get its self explosion!