My feedback far about v2.0.x (continued...)


================= [beastmen] =================
With this new update, they are somewhat softer to kill, but they still have problems.

In Legend matches, the first problem is that they are simply too many.

This triggers several other problems like silent approaches. In many of these cases, the real problem is that they are popping up from nothing or from its team mate.

The spearmen, that I suppose to be the weakest, are actually the most dangerous since they strike from 2-3 line… usually overlapped by the others.

Another problem are the standard bearers. One is a tough encounter because of the banner bonuses, and because the spawn spamming in the surroundings. Two are almost a sentence. With three, the main problem is how to reach the bearers.

Three and a minotaur (also affected by bonuses)… is the Dark Omen final fight.

The easy proof is that the beastmenless map are usually far more simpler than the others.

In Legend mode, it is quite common the spawn of double specials (of the same type).

My personal record are 6 choas mages in less than 30 secs.

Up to now, they are outclassed by other weapons (like double ones, or other 2 handled weapons) in any way.

The main problem here, is that they are slow, and they hit only the first enemy line.
They have the same reach of one handed swords.

=================[ranged weapons]=================
Up to now, Bardin’s magic throwing axes are one of the strongest.

Hunter long bow, is only outclassed by bounty hunter crossbow, or pistols or special.

Sienna has her own problems… but Kerillian is almost nerfed compared to the others.

=================[difficulty level]=================
The strange thing here is that it seems that it’s aiming to kill this_bad_mob_with_your_silver_spoon.

For instance, players supplies are almost the same through the difficulty levels.
Another interesting approach may add complexity to the teamplay: to higher difficulty levels, players could bump into the others limiting their movement freedom.

Add severe friendly fire to heavy attacks too. In this way, players shall take care how to approach the enemies.

One of the benefits, may be that the mobs can be less but with the need of better and more cogent teamplay.


I agree for the most, but Waystalker + Longbow is one of the best Specials killer. With 10% infantry, 10% armour, 10% chaos, 10% skaven and Bloodshot you can bodyshot every Specials + SV also on Cataclysm.

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… I saw a bounty killer aided by a strength potion to rip 90% health of a legend chaospawn by its special… :slight_smile:

Kerillian is my favorite character, but up to now she isn’t ‘The Archer’ anymore.
Poisoned arrows are somewhat stronger area effect but they don’t stagger anymore, the base damage is quite low, and they are few.

Omitting the fact that they are quite difficult to use avoiding friendly fire.

Longbow is a good weapon but nothing special… and I don’t want compare with Bardin throwing axes.

Shortbow is a good crowd control weapon, but quite harmless vs armored/specials…

… and this without talking about mobs spawning on your side, while you are aiming enemies.

If I’m being completely honest, Bardin’s throwing axes are kind of trash when compared to the crossbow. To kill a special with the Xbow is as simple as switching weapon for a quarter of second and aiming for the head, while throwing axes offer no such reliability, have massive projectile drop over distance, and it takes ages to fully charge it, not to mention the non-existent cleave, which is really essential for taking out a special hiding in the crowd, and rather slow (full) speed at which you “reload” them.

A tech option for sure, especially for Ranger Veteran, but nothing special, IMO, since ammo isn’t issue for the Ranger most of the time due to how frequent special spawns on higher difficulties are.

I agree with the state of zweihanders, though. They have no place in the state of balance which relies heavily on weapons with both decent stagger and damage, while two-handers’ only redeeming quality is the fact they can cleave somewhat good (and guess what - tHP on cleave was gutted in WoM update) while being clunky/unreliable most of the time. They do fine against hordes with mixed-in elites, I guess, but that’s where their strengths end.


I saw Bardins using Throwing axes to medium long ranges with devastating effects by compensating the axe’s fall. Probably here, the effective range can be adjusted (decreasing it) to keep the things fair.
On a dummy, they still have one of the highest ranged DPS I have seen.

For instance, my tower shielded Kerillian is invulnerable to Rat ogre/minotaur attacks in defensive stance. She became more tanky than our Iron Defender.

I cannot speak about Saltz & kruber new weapons because I am not confortable with spear like weapons.

About Sienna flaming weapons (new & old), probably they need a more frequent fire damage on normal attacks too.

Up to now, flail is quite good, but flaming sword rulez. While it doesn’t have a terrific base damage, charged attacks easily stagger(!) and burn multiple targets.
It can stand and control sv patrols, and with a bit of patience, you can kill them alone.

[2 handed swords]
With the only exception of kruber (maybe), no one uses them. At least from champion to higher levels.

For example, the elven one is outclassed by the glaive (or even the spear) in every side. Even the 1 handed sword is far better.

You had ne up until the end. Adding collision to fellow players and/or adding friendly fire to heavy melee attacks (if I got that right) sounds like it would be terribly bothersome and unfun.


It’s only an idea.

Up to now, it is frequent case that our heroes are some sort of fighting crazy 8-arm god. :slight_smile:

IMHO less foes, and a more tactical and cautious approach might not be so bad.

=================[level 35]=================

Up to now, it doesn’t have any talent.
… and a new talent might help to ‘handle’ the beastmen problem

=================[red weapons]=================
I have many, but the feel is that they are the shiny version of the yellow weapon. They still have few looks (usually 1 or 2), and usually they are a runed version of some yellow skin.

I personally really like the 2h sword. I always have, even in VT1. People have always claimed it’s a useless weapon, and to be fair it has seen some pretty rough iterations. However, I feel like it’s in a pretty good spot now, especially on WHC and Foot Knight. The one thing the 2h sword really lacks is quick single target damage, but both of these careers have ways around that. They also both have an emphasis on control and mobility, which are the two biggest strengths of the 2h sword imo (especially the mobility, one of the best 2h weapons in this category).

I wouldn’t consider using the 2h sword on Mercenary or Zealot, as it just seems like a waste of their damage potential. I’m in the “meh” region for using it on Huntsman and Bounty Hunter - it can work, but isn’t anything outstanding.

Kruber 2h swords are quite decent, but they still give the impression the only the first half of the blade is working.

I usually use mercenary with executioner sword, and a good example may be the first charged attack.
The strike falls from above and the long and heavy blade should hit hard anything in its path… while it affect only nearest target.

Greatsword could use some buffs or rework.

  • heavy attacks could stagger more (IMO it should stagger Mauler, because it is very incovenient to fight them with it, they taking heavy attack like it is nothing, it is ridiculous)
  • heavy attack headhits should do more damage to armored targets, because finesse, and it is slow heavy weapon!
  • it could do higher infantry damage (because it is anti-infantry weapon, then again, it is slow heavy weapon!)


==============[2h weapons]==============
Something has changed, but 2h swords still need some more tweaks.

For instance, the 1st charged strike of the elven 2h sword only oneshot the target if you strike it between the eyes.

Even with normal infantry, it is quite ineffective if you hit the chest for instance. This strike should be a finesse lethal hit, but it doesn’t even stagger the target if it survives.

==============[flails animation]==============
Saltz, and Sienna charging shot animations are still wrong.

The rotation’s centrifugal force should fully stretch the chain, and the head should orbit around the part with the handle.
Actually the impression is that the head is weightless and it is attached to a some sort of strange weighted chain.

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