Pchom93, As with anything that involves millions of people simultaneously leaving something, there’s always more than just one reason. But RNG involvement for end game, without getting into a long off topic discussion, alone isn’t enough to make people quit either because Vanilla’s end game drops were also pure RNG, and the numbers were very strong back then. There were people whose DKP accumulated to pretty very high levels because they were holding out for a specific item that just wouldn’t drop and had to bid against 39 other players because raid sizes were larger back then, and those items were sometimes literally the difference between being able to advance to further challenges or not, if it was a stat difference for a core member of the guild, such as a main tank.
We’re a day away from a stream. I’ve said plenty bad about it, don’t really have anything more to say right now. I want to see what mechanic they have in mind that is enough to justify pulling lore out of their ass and making something that focuses on melee sword combat on Kruber feel unique enough to justify a new class.
I want to see what is sooo amazing that only can go on a GK that they chose it over many other potential careers.
Ugh. I so dislike retcons. What happened to his parents being farmers and him finding their bodies in the farm outside Ubersreik?
While a fun read, this goes against all his carefully constructed background. It’s like the infamous “the principal and the pauper” episode in the simpsons: while you can buy it, it throws away everything which made sense about the character for the sake of a cheap thrill.
In terms of classes actually available to the current heroes that don’t require new voices or models, they could have made a warrior priest, which is an empire soldier that gains divine magic. Think warhammers in melee, attacks build a resource that is used to charge up ranged attacks like cone knockback / pillars of white fire, opposite of overcharge. F as an aoe temp health + rez like Merc. Talents to make building up their cast resource (righteous fury) give buffs, so they have ranged but don’t want to spam it. Premise is that he converts to Sigmar after the past 5 years following Saltzpyre through the apocalypse.
They could have made an engineer for Bardin, that combines his bomb build on ranger with his drakefire weapons on IB. Opens up the door for so many unique weapons that only an engineer would equip. Premise is that Bardin’s father or brother was an engineer, and he’s been tinkering with scraps in the keep between missions. Started as a hobby, but now one of his projects actually works and he’s got access to a new weapon.
Both of those are a slight stretch of the lore. But they’re at least classes that are actually available to an empire human and to a dwarf, respectively. GK isn’t, so its a /much/ bigger stretch for less.
And GK is basically just a footknight with better strength and speed, that only uses his sword, so they’re really setting themselves up for failure in terms of unique things they can add to this class down the road.
It’s hard to disagree with you. What I mostly dislike about this is that it throws in the toilet his character development. I’d rather get Marque de Mandelot, Kruber’s half-brother. Use the same voice actor, keep his head always hidden behind a helmet, it would make sense and save resources, whatever, anything but this.
We need the line “Just like cousin Okri used to make” added to the game.
But yeah, the dialogue for engineer bardin would have been gold. The elf complaining that he’s leaving dirty fingerprints on everything he touches. Sienna agreeing with her that his weapon is almost as likely to explode as the skaven’s. When he damages a teammate, the line that he doesn’t really know exactly how it works because he was drunk when he made it, and the entire team’s incredulous response to that.
Instead we get Kruber doing a french accent for literally no reason.
edit: “a bomb! just like cousin okri used to make!”
This game has a lot of awesome things in it, it’s why I want to see them build on them, not doing this… this.
Yeah. The dialogue was something that brought the characters to life. Over time, it became a silver lining that helped justify how they limited what classes they can add by making them 5 very specific people. This cheapens 5 years of Kruber dialogue talking about his family being killed on a farm and everything else. Its just really bad storywriting.
@Fatshark_Hedge It still seems forced, a last minute addition at odds with his character development, while adding very little to it. It seems to me to be very different from the usual vermintide writing. May I enquire if there’s been a change in writers? I also have some leftovers concerns from Drachenfels (which I loved overall):
Agreeing above. I understand the premise of having a Bretonnian ancestor; that’s reasonable. But just having it come up now to shoehorn in what isn’t even an empire class, when appropriate options were available, makes this a pretty significant stretch of lore that was taken very unnecessarily. It continues a trend of making stuff up. Warhammer has more than enough pre-established content that FS doesn’t need to make stuff up. Its a shame because they do a great job of bringing the warhammer world to life when they actually stick to the material. Feels like that’s happening less and less lately.
To me, this feels like bad storywriting, with bad justification for taking that liberty.
Since GK don’t have magic or ranged weapons and their melee overlaps very heavily with FK, the only thing they could hypothetically have that makes them unique from the rest is cavalry, and its really hard to see that being implemented in VT2. Potentially a lance charge + pocket horse on F. Its a bit gimmicky and nonsensical but I guess at this point, what the hell right? If you had a way to increase character collision and weapon hitbox during the animation, it could hypothetically be fun. FS did a great job with it in WotR. Underpowered or overpowered depending on the map type in VT2, but I guess there’s nothing wrong with positioning and terrain determining the success of an attack, and it would give them some unique cavalry related talent options. Still, if that was what they did, it seems like the sort of thing they should have led with in their announcement. My guess is Kruber’s 5th sword, and that it glows with an aura of disappointment.
They are. It took me a while, because I remembered something, but it wasn’t in the lorepages or the weapon descriptions. It was actual dialogue from the first game, for references this video (and others by the same author) has many lines from the game.
The line in question is at 15:38
“You follow Taal, sergeant. Not so common in these parts, no?”
“Common enough. My family is originally from Talabecland, so that’s where that came from.”
Kruber was raised in a farm outside Ubersreik by his parents, but this idea of a bretonnian-turned-hermit ancestor really doesn’t fit.
EDIT:Which is not to say it’d be completely impossible. Rather, Vermintide lore is, or used to be, so well crafted, that you can’t just paste last minute ideas on top of it, lest you blunder it.
Ah, cool! Thanks for that.
I did not play the first game as much as I would’ve liked. Should probably take some time and go through some dialogue videos, I imagine there’s plenty of interesting stuff I’ve missed.
@EnragedFountain Totally. If you have never played it, I’d advice you to. I can host DLCs if you need me to. This game’s rich lore (much more than one would expect from an action game) is precisely what drove me to spend hundreds of hours on it, because every bit of dialogue, and in some cases even item descriptions would add something to the puzzle.
VT1’s dialogue was great. The story that FS created for these characters was top notch. They even had scattered lorepages that gave information about the world. They were journal entries, VT’s equivalent to VT2’s keep art. Even into VT2, they did a good job.
Around Back to Ubersreik is where they started going downhill. A randomly powerful grey wizard, who wasn’t the grey wizard from the first game, just conveniently has been with us all along and conjures illusionary cities for our heroes to go through, and they can bring real objects back from these illusions? That was the first big stretch and the dialogue, instead of being quality, was just them trying to explain what was actually a bunch of BS.
Yeah, I agree with you, even if I found the Izrakraz to be a brilliant nod to all those rumors of a treasure hidden in the statues.
BTW the grey wizard probably has always been Oleysa herself, so it’s not totally farfetched. I remember being worried at the announce trailer of BtU because I thought “what about the story?”, so in the end I was at least satisfied they went somewhere with it, even if it doesn’t completely make sense.
I wanna give credit where it’s due though: except my doubt about Saltzpyre 180-degree turn about the Enchanter (which I still don’t understand) I find Drachenfel’s lines in the last map-pack to be top notch: for the first time we have heard hints to kerillian’s background (and not only hers) which are consistent with lines and hints that have been dropped since the first game. It really made me think the worst was behind us and Fatshark was back on track. Sigh.
Yes, I also agree that Drachenfels was their best map pack in a while. The only thing that let me down, and it was a pretty big let down because I really had my hopes up, was that in the first map when the captured daemon spoke to us, that the map series would end with a daemon boss fight. It could have been the same exact encounter even, but under the premise that Nurgloth failed to complete the ritual, was killed by the daemon, and now its loose in the castle, up to our heroes to stop it.
We already have a nurgle sorcerer fight, so I was a bit underwhelmed. It is actually a very good encounter, just personally was let down.
As far as the grey wizard being Olesya all along, I saw that posted somewhere and It was a little odd because Wizard’s Tower is one of my all time favourite vermintide maps. Do they mean to say that it was Olesya’s tower all along? If that was the case, why not use it as a base? I was happy they did something with it, but compared to the quality of lore in the Wizard’s Tower period of Vermintide, it felt sloppy.
