It’s lower dps than Cog Hammer if you’re headshotting, even against Chaos Warriors.
I suggest these changes to keep it distinct:
Lights:
Partial-charged heavy:
Full-charged heavy:
I think these proposed changes are most reasonable.
All of that sounds like pretty good changes. .-)
Ignoring shields is reversed for certain flail attacks. And there is no reason to give it to picks.
I can see the 2nd phase having it because it’s a very long attack and you might fantasize such a power attack destroys everything, but not for the lights and the 1st phase of the heavy attack. Maybe it has shield breaking anyway, I don’t remember.
The identity of the pick is mixed up with the hammers, and that’s bad. If it ever gets an update its abilities should harmonize with the crowbill, because both of them are picks. (The hammer part isn’t used in the crowbill animations.)
High armor damage is their natural attribute. Picks are probably the only cold weapons that can pierce helmets and plates. High headshot damage is cool and fits the weapon, too.
This is not true. With the pickaxe it is similarly easy to get behind a shield in real life combat as it is with the flail.
Yes, because in real life flails cannot really bypass a shield either. Only two-handed flails could, because they have long heads.
But this bypassing is a fantasy trope currently for flails, so there is no problem using it in a game.
Almost all flails can bypass shields. I know this from fencing training, where it was always necessary to have a protective glove even under the shield when fighting against a flail. Flails are also quite dangerous for their holder and it is almost impossible to block with them - perhaps this could also be reflected in the game.
And Warpick is such a scary weapon that we never had the courage to use it for fencing. It’s basically a two-handed crow’s beak. It can bypass and break anything.
You should use the shield to protect from the ball not from the handle. I guess from your description you used very long chains. Maybe even a two handed version? All in-game flails have short chains.
Bypassing shields is not the same as piercing them. Picks can pierce shields easily, but that’s the job of shields. That’s how they work. Good luck freeing the weapon mid-fight. But how could they get around them?
Yes, we used long chains for both 1h and 2h flails. .-)
Pickaxe can go around shields because it has long spikes so if an opponent block the haft of a pickaxe the spike still hits him. It can also hook and move the shield. Because of its heaviness is Warpick a pretty bad and slow weapon for humans but I can imagine it can be awesome brutal weapon for heavy armored and strong dwarves. But this brute force of Warpick is unfortunately not represented in Vermintide.
https://www.ranalds.gift/build/rZH6KXtS0zKTg993W3Mn/view
here’s ur “psuedo” slayer build for RV. also just a reminder too the IB has a Warpick build that works well with Miner’s Rhythm so again, it being the only “reliable” build might be true for you… but for everyone else there’s plenty of builds with warpick that are fine. you just need to git gud with it
edit: i’d also like to tell you that you can view the weapons stats and it still has the highest cleave of any of bardin’s weapons’ light attacks. So it’s not even conjecture it’s just objective fact =) go ahead, click on the little cog wheel next to your weapons and look at the cleave stats. The light attack has nearly the same (i think it’s exactly the same actually) damage/cleave as the 2h axe and hammer have on their heavy it’s just a smaller attack radius. So don’t be lazy… turn your camera more because if you like the 2h weapon heavy attacks there’s literally no reason for you not to like warpick’s light attacks outside of the radius which is such a small issue that doesn’t require a buff
But… That’s just dual hammers. That’s not warpick. That doesn’t even build into attack speed.
That’s just your usual RV build except with a rather odd and unreliable way of trying to make throwing axes work on cata (they really need a buff tbh).
Yeah, except… Why the hell would you take Miner’s Rhythm with it? Wouldn’t The Rolling Mountain be much better with it?
In-game stats are only good for newbie players to tell them what the specific combos generally can achieve. It doesn’t even include stats for each specific attack within the combo, which often have different stats (not in case of warpick lights).
This is for example what should be looked at when talking about intricate weapon balance, not some funny unspecific drawings.
Warpick light combo has some cleave, but it lacks cleave damage and attack speed. That’s why it’s only good on Slayer - because he can reliably increase his attack speed to very high levels and can take 2 Warpicks to do QQ cancelling.
No, they are not. I know because I’ve used all 3 of those weapons and just like everyone else who actually did, I know what their combos can achieve. If you don’t believe me then you can look up raw data in the doc I linked above.
Except for the fact that there is a reason. If there was no reason and they were the same, then I (and many other people) would be using Warpick and there wouldn’t be a topic about buffing it.
You’d know the reason if you actually used the weapon.
Warpick is not a good weapon, it’s just a weaker version of Coghammer with no additional abilties to it, apart from the charged heavy attack that doesn’t even bypass SV shields.
the only person posting about buffing it is you. The graphs aren’t perfect but they still accurately reflect the weapon’s stats. Also, you posted that google doc as if it proves me wrong lol. It doesn’t. It shows i’m more right about its lights being the same as the 2h weapon’s heavy attacks more than you could even know. The damage and cleave are literally the same and in some cases higher due to the fact that you can swing it faster than the 2h weapons. Idk why you’re trying to argue they’re not because they are. Also again you made the arguement that slayer’s the only bardin class that reliably increases atk spd. Again that’s a lie, RV and OE both have atk spd buffs that you can use reliably at any time.
You asking about taking Miner’s Rhythm vs Rolling Mountain explains A LOT about how you’re using the weapon. You’re supposed to be spamming your pushes between attacks so you can squeeze in your phase 1 heavies. Also a full phase 2 heavy + a push attack kills everything minus CW’s and the buffed beastmen on cata regardless of bardin’s class. The extra power from slayer is always nice cuz it allows you the chance to one show CW’s with dawi drop. But that’s in no means a dealbreaker for the warpick…
I think this is a fair suggestion.
On charged heavy it is fair, and maybe a bit faster charging speed, anything else is fine at the moment. but normal heavies should stay like they are. The attacks are already strong my only complain is that the charged heavy feels so damn slow and clunky and it is hard to make use out of it.
Not sufficiently for this context, no.
Liar + you’re wrong + learn to read
Warpick lights:
Also wrong, look at the Attack time and Charge time in the screenshots above.
Because you’re wrong and they aren’t. The numbers are literally different. Both in the doc and in-game. Try testing them out on dummies in the keep.
Heck, try actually playing the game with those weapons and see for yourself instead of typing all this nonsense.
Nah, their buffs are utter sh*t and require you to build the classes into something suboptimal so you cannot even do your role properly. And then there’s the fact that they don’t have solid QQ cancelling because they can’t take 2 warpicks.
Rolling Mountain is generally better for weapons which aren’t reliant on pushes, are good at killing and gives you the opportunity to have ult up very often, if not all the time. Which amounts for a good bit of DR.
Miner’s Rhythm is good for weapons which have to push a lot (1h weapons, shield weapons) or give IB enough survavibility that he doesn’t need the ult so often. It could work on Warpick - but imo Rolling Mountian is a better choice, since you can keep your ult up and keep swinging your weapon without fear of taking too much damage. Or you could, if Warpick was good enough for that LOL
??? i’m looking at the damage values they’re the same/similar just like i said haha. The 2h axe has slightly higher damage (by a value of 2 but far less stagger) and the 2h hammer and warpick are EXACTLY the same damage and stagger value. Why are you trying to gaslight people? Also you trying to call RV atk spd buffs bad is odd. Plenty of people use drunken brawler and iirc taking foe-feller is standard for RV atm. Your other option is to take Master of improv which increases your reload time (which i’ve found is only really useful on the crossbow since the other weapons don’t really pen enemies as well as crossbow does) or to take Last Resort which is a cheesy type of talent. Also by calling the RV and OE buffs bad are you also calling the slayer atk spd buffs bad too? They stack higher than slayer’s does, RV’s is a passive just like slayer’s is an you’re still more useful by dropping ammo and damage resist alongside another atk spd buff. They’re not particularly “random” like swift slaying is based on your crits. You pick up the buff and viola you have a 15% atk spd buff for OE or in RV’s case 5%, 8%, 11%, and 14%. But neither are bad and neither require you to have a specific weapon loadout either
They also all have different charge times, different attack times, different chain times, damage windows and in addition to that 2h hammer has a different mass modifier and has armor cleave.
All of that amounts to the combos being far from “same”.
And that’s incredibly important because you’re not supposed to use these combos on axe and warpick to combat elite groups, but it’s perfectly viable on 2h hammer.
There is a significant difference. You have to be delusional not to acknowledge that.
Gaslight? I went out of my way to post screenshots of that document just so everyone can see and confirm themselves that you were wrong. Are you accusing me of ill will?
It’s significantly worse than what Slayer offers and it’s not enough to make Warpick good on anything besides Slayer.
Okay and?
“Plenty of people” take it, but they do not take Warpick. So what’s your point?
Mine is that Warpick is garbage tier weapon that could be fun but needs a buff.
No, I’m not calling “Slayer atk spd buffs” bad. I never have and I have no idea where you pulled that out from.
And no, RV and OE buffs do not give them more attack speed than Slayer’s, even if we take a Slayer without buffs apart from passive and ult into consideration.
You have already said this lie before, scroll up.
Slayer is just way better in terms of attack speed and is the only good option for Warpick.
Warpick is a weaker version of Coghammer.
Therefore Warpick requires a buff (especially to its charged attacks).
Before it was nerfed, its light attacks had way more cleave, I think it’s a good way to buff it. I’d prefer if it stayed somewhat clunky to use.
I mean you can think what you like but the numbers are exactly the same/similar for 2h weapons so if you like those just use it like them because its overhead is much better. If you can’t get used to that then sucks to suck don’t use the weapon then. But it’s definitely not in the dire state that you’re claiming it’s in. Sounds more like you’ve used it a couple times, called it trash, and posted about it. Same goes for your thread about NB, except that one you just fully don’t understand why people take it.
Except they are not. And I’ve literally said which ones aren’t. Are you blind?
You literally don’t know how those combos work. I doubt you ever used Warpick.
Greathammer swipes are good vs mixed horde and elites, because they slide across armored targets and you can keep them CCd.
Greataxe swipes are simply good at killing.
Warpick light combo is literally the slowest light combo in the game (even executioner sword is faster on average AND it has armor sliding), it has a small radius, deals laughable damage and stops at the first SV you hit.
Its heavy charged attacks take very long to charge and don’t even bypass SV shields.
Yes it is. It definitely is.
It needs a buff.
I’ve used it extensively, especially on Slayer.
It can work on slayer if you are sweaty enough, though it’s still worse than other options.
If you have like 1000+ hours in the game then you can probably use it on IB and not be detrimental.
On RV and OE it just sucks ass.
I’ve played mods which actually made it fun - by giving it the ability to bypass shields (it caused an explosion on charged heavy attack, much like sienna flail).
Nope, I understand NB very well. I’ve used it extensively and I’ve talked with people (who played for far longer than me) who still use NB. Recently I’ve tested it on every career (apart from GK, WP and Necro) and it’s ever only a good pick on BH, but not the best - Boon is best. Or Barkskin if you’re extremely good at avoiding hits while doing melee to proc your Blessed Combat and Dual Action. But it still needs a buff. Cope.
