Books are a challenge modifier, increase challenge to increase reward. Maybe this is why I think cata should have better or extra loot, bc extra challenge? Maybe a sigmar chest for full books and you get high red rate or maybe high cosmetics drop rate?
Leave this guy be, he’s a stubborn one holding a personal grudge against Fatshark because he didn’t like the new content and feels like that everyone else should do, too. All his references and ‘facts’ are without any reason and obviously, he doesn’t understand that there is no such thing as a free DLC. All the games he mentioned have strong monetarization models in place but, apparently, he likes to freeride and doesn’t acknowledge the fact that others are literally paying the price instead.
1 Like
Maybe. But before cata most of the good legend players already had hundreds or thousands of unopened chests and were still taking all the books.
Oh I don’t think paid cata was even close to the main reason WoM got its negative reviews…didn’t help though.
3 Likes
Man this is some top tier circle jerking right here, you didn’t even read a single word I said, did you? No wonder every person i’ve talked to in game says these forums are bad.
Never said this, but continue to keep putting words in my mouth. If you enjoy the DLC content then go ahead and play it, I’m not stopping you. However just know that the vast majority of players DON’T enjoy it and Fatshark is actively killing the game by listening to the minority.
Great argument.
The Total War Warhammer devs literally release periodic FLC or “Free DLC” as they call it so you’re wrong there.
The games I listed are buy to play titles that include free content updates, whether or not they also include DLC is irrelevant as I’m not arguing that Fatshark removes all DLC entirely.
I own the collectors edition and every DLC.
I think I’m going to just leave these forums for a while now, too much of a headache. Enjoy your echo chamber.
6 Likes
It sounds like you are arguing from buyers remorse. Cata should be ‘free’ but WoM owners should be entitled to another content module, yes?
Undermines your points about the Devs getting paid. V2 is a premium game adding freemium monetization AND bundling the only desired content(Cata) with clearly unwanted and unfinished content(weaves, Beasties) on release. How do you defend this behavior?
3 Likes
I agree cata should not be behind a a paywall. It’s frustrating as heck to find games for it, much less games where everyone has good ping. Just make it a separate FreeLC for sigmar sake.
I’m meh on adding better loot for it, I don’t think it makes a difference either way.
-most people that I see in Legend who don’t belong there aren’t there because of loot, they’re there because they want various cosmetics related to challenges, or just because they’re completing all their challenges.
-Cata already has challenges and such associated with it, so there’s already gonna be people who don’t belong there trying to complete those.
But at the end of the day after you’ve put in enough hours (to be wanting to play Cata) you are probably drowning in items and dust and don’t give a crap about loot either way.
Especially if Lohners Emporium provides a way to get weapon cosmetics with shillings, that will be so far superior to grinding for loot boxes and praying to the RNG gods…
3 Likes
Which behaviour? If you mean the “Bundling” than the argument is a non-starter. Compiling different content in one game/Expansion/DLC is usual buisness practice and has always been the case. I mean, I have no interest in Recruit/Veteran difficulty and the power leveling, never had. Why had i to pay for it? A lot of people just play one character or even just one class. Why do they have to pay for unwanted content? Why did someone have to buy Skittergate although he is not interested in the map? Or why does someone need 30 different weapons if he just wants to use 5 of them? Why do I need to pay for Twitch and Deed mode I’m not interested in?
You may consider this ridiculous and say these are all basic game functions and should come with the game but there is a lot of subjectivity here. A lot of people have to buy unwanted content they are not interested in for the base game (like classes, weapons and modes). Bundling occurs to give a better price for all players. If you are interested in just one of the parts bad for you. If you are interested in all the parts (like me) good for you. But this cherry picking mentality is really not helpful.
From here on out, it is again for the thread in general (and not a specific answer): They put work into the generation of Cataclysm so they should get paid for it. That is justified. And again, for the moment I want to have to be sure that all my Cataclysm games are built on the same Basic premise. We should avoid (at least for now) a scenario where we have two different Cataclysms, one with Beastmen and one without Beastmen like we have for Legend. This would not be okay for the highest difficulty in a game. The experience there should be the same for everyone. So if you make Cataclysm free you would have to make Beastmen free too. And …. no, just no. They have put work into them and they should be paid for that. Seriously, gamers are among the greediest species in existence permanently asking developers to gift away their work. I mean, do people generally work for free? I do not. And citing other games doing xyz is not working either because it is again cherry picking of the few exceptions/outliers. Most games regularly charge for newly developed content unless a “Free to Play” concept.
And as more general statement: No, people should not be allowed to play the game “they way they want” (like having Beastmen toggle). They should play the game like the developers want their game to be played. Developers may give certain modifiers they find accetable (and even then there are games where you cant even chose a difficulty) and the player can make his decision based on this.
Yes. If I sell you something, and that something is “free” after all, then you devalue the expansion. If you devalue the expansion, no newcomers will buy it.
Therefore, there will be actually less people playing weaves. And despite the current state of weave, I’m pretty sure they can be improved, and it would be a shame to devalue the expansion that tends to bring the end game we wish for.
No. It doesn’t add freemium monetization. The Emporium stuff won’t be buyable in real money. And there’s still no “paid” lootboxes.
If you want to sell an expansion, you will have content in it.
I don’t defend the “unfinished” content. This should have been delayed. This should have been better, or whatever you see fit.
I defend the need for them to sell their work, as they want, instead of separating them in “non sellable” smaller products. Which would have been a bad idea. As it would have separate people way more Cataclysm wise or Weave wise. At least, if you buy the expansion, you have the whole “end game” (Cataclysm & Weaves) and other stuff (factions & weapon).
About “unwanted” content, people ask for an end game mode, and new ennemies since the beginning. This is wanted content. Not perfect. With some bad ideas in it. But it was “asked”. (some topics even did foresee the beastmens coming)
Now, again, it “could” (instead of should) be free, even if, again, I don’t see how any player who have the skill to actually play Cata, not wanting to pay the expansion, as it would mean they’re fine with spending only 20 usd, for 500+ hours without being fine to add another 15.
After 500 hours. It’s like not wanting to support your most played game.
Again, expecting people working for free is something that should be avoided in what you’re asking.
Especially if you want the game to live long.
You are right.
You are right too.
Imho we need an half way. For example, Cataclysm could give a “sure” Emperor Vault (regardless books and dices). In this way none would try Cata just for the loot (farming at Legend would still be better)… but the players who love the challenge could obtain a little reward.
I love Cataclysm, I love the challenge itself, but since I already completed every challenge and since I must still find some red weapons… It’s like I was forced to play Legend.
2 Likes
You did 100 champ+ on every and you still dont have enough reds to throw it everywhere?
Still missing red cosmetics and some hats :’(
Haha good luck getting all illusions xD but yeah im missing cosmetics too
And as more general statement: No, people should not be allowed to play the game “they way they want” (like having Beastmen toggle). They should play the game like the developers want their game to be played. Developers may give certain modifiers they find accetable (and even then there are games where you cant even chose a difficulty) and the player can make his decision based on this.
This is the attitude that has killed this game. Removing player options lowers the amount of people willing to play the game. If the only people who are having fun are the ones whose vision perfectly aligns with Fatshark, you alienate most of the audience.
If you allow players freedom in how they interact with your game you open up the potential audience to people who like many different ways of playing.
Even if I agreed with your premise, what happens when Fatshark changes their mind on how the game should be played? I’ve been here for two completely different versions of the game, I understand there was a third ranged meta that existed prior to the BBB. Should every player change their definition of fun because Fatshark changed how they are allowed to have fun?
2 Likes
Sorry, I don’t understand what you want to say… but, honestly, I can’t understand your points of view in general. How can my reds nfluence this idea? I mean, maybe it’s not the definitive solution, I didn’t think much about it, but I don’t see cons. If you already have every red items dunno, patience, it will be one extra red dust.
Anyway it’s not necessary and off topic, but just to be clear: I have enough red dust to craft the missing red weapons, but I would like the bright illusions too. Sadly, when you miss one only red for a career, it seems that the rng stops itself to be rng and it starts to be your enemy. I have a lot of red weapons in x10 or more.
p.s I was talking about challenges based on the difficulty, in order to say “I already played for the challenge itself” (indeed I agree that Cata must exist only for the challenge). Actually, to complete every challenge, I still need to farm some 100 champ+ and some deeds. And weaves. I don’t play them simply because I hate them and I haven’t enough steam friends.
1 Like
If its free no one will buy, it is the folks that bought the now free content that are assed out.
FS gets paid twice for WoM(Investors for implementation and consumers per purchase). So they aren’t working for free, it is the opposite.
Cata isn’t unsellable(its just a bad faith practice), only weaves and beatmen are arguably unsellable. So you defend FS’s ability to sell things there base doesn’t want. But who is arguing with you? They ‘can’ do many thing, but they seem to always choose the path worst off for the consumer
You a forum gymnast? Seems like you logically unravel in the 3rd paragraph there.
Haven’t read anything in this thread.
I think it’s important to KEEP cata as a paid thing, that way the people who are playing Cata are the ones who really want it. Making it free would only mean people who are halfassed about it or just plain incompetent at that level will attempt to get carried to get the frame.
Making it free and having a higher reward than legend will simply infuriate those people who have paid for it and want to be there for the challenge as every muppet will try for the better loot.
Cata should be paid to keep the pillocks out of the mix. I suspect Cata is a very little slice of the consumer base anyhow, and giving it away with better loot attached to it will cause anyone who IS looking for free carries/good lootz to demolish any kind of coherent effort.
I think Cata might be ok as a single, stand alone thing available in Lohner’s Emporium for 3.99 but making it free is asking for bedlam.
1 Like
Paying for Cata does not mean the one who pays for it is de facto competent enough to play it. Regardless of if it’s a paid difficulty, people who aren’t ready yet will try to play it if the rewards are better than Legend. I seriously doubt a paywall will prevent this from occurring in that situation.
For the record: I personally think the argument of “Making Cata reward better is a bad idea because it will attrackt leechers.” is not very convincing in the first place, though. If you quickplay in Legend nowadays these “leechers” also seem to be rare enough and not a big problem. People will figure out soon enough that consistent clears on a lower difficulty are more rewarding and less frustrating for all involved. This might not count anymore if Cata rewards stuff that is unique to that difficulty, though, especially if it’s something that effects gameplay…
2 Likes
What a delicious thread this has become I’m laughing so hard I almost *hit myself xD
But whatever , my opinion: froh said it all …