this was really needed imo. there is no scenario where you should be able to delete a boss from orbit without landing a single weakspot hit in 3 seconds
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I agree with Hrod-Ward a lot, here.
Shooting at enemies and then waiting for them to die isn’t exactly how PBB plays. You can’t cut down PBB’s 80 second cooldown to 26 seconds without shooting a lot and killing a lot.
And that leads into the ammo problems. Although the BLO changes will probably help more, it’s still only a 15% ammo increase. Any gunlugger in QP needs to have a lot of faith that randoms will feed him ammo. A lot of faith.
4 stacks a shot is a good change, but a nerf’s a nerf. Achlys stocks are going to plummet and bleed/cavalcade mk V rippers will rise.
I’m not torn up about the Light 'em Up nerfs, myself. But I think it’s only a matter of time before someone with enough free time blows out the community’s back (again) with a video essay comparing Gunlugger to SG recon psyker, Ex Stance vet, and Zealot on a day that ends with Y.
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It still will be, now it will probably melt everything that isn’t carapace or a boss way faster than before (which was already fast). That was the whole point of your post no? Isn’t that a gimmick? certainly sounds like one.
Yeah, now more weapons will be able to use that gimmick. Could have done the same thing while keeping the 32 stacks because as it is now, things that aren’t bosses die before you can get the 32 stacks going.
As you pointed out 16 stacks is more than good enough to kill elites, you don’t need the 32 for them, but you do for the bosses. So it’s a nerf.
You say that now more weapons will benefit from it, which I have agreed on. But now comes the question, if I need to stack 16 stacks as fast as I can because I need it, why would I choose anything that isn’t a stubber or a ripper for the task? Those two will still be the most efficient, just like before but worse because the nerf to boss damage.
15% dmg and 15% rending seem way worse than 16 stacks of fire.
Sounds like downgrades in every way to me, except on the weapons that can use light em up.
Do you know how much time do you need to stack 16 right now? Something between 2.5 seconds on achlys. 10 seconds on kickback. Both the time and ammo will be reduced by half.
And I was forced to count the kickback on a crusher because everything else died before I reached the 16 stacks (8 shots). So this will simply be overkill damage for the most.
The same two weapons being still the most efficient at it. Ammo economy will improve though, yay?
Ackshually it maths out closer to a 17.6% ammo increase multiplicative with ammo stash 
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Could also buff the dueling sword. Why do you want such extreme powercreep? 32 stacks is absurd to begin with. Does anything else in the game stack dots that high?
I honestly don’t understand the point of your post. You’re calling build diversity and weapons being brought closer together gimmicks? And you’re arguing that you only use light em up twice per mission? It’s just so strange. The mental gymnastics from players who REALLY REALLY badly want to be the victim in a good rework.
I’m also noticing this:
So you just proved yourself wrong and found out that it’s no good on a kickback and the 15% rending 15% damage is better for most uses.
You can take your crosshair off an enemy sooner and move onto the next enemy. This is how recon las with infernus plays, this is how light em up plays, this is how everything dot based plays because of how fast and exponentially strong dots are.
Eventually you will just not shoot when there’s nothing to shoot anymore which will happen faster and with less ammo expended now. Also, it doesn’t need to be a 26s cooldown if it’s better at killing most targets. Sort of self balances out this way
Only thing left to do now is lower Thunder Hammer unyielding damage (for real this time) or raise the amount of health weakened monsters have. Either that or we return to the glory days of Monstrous spawning full health bosses.
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No it isn’t because as you pointed out, things that are not bosses die fast at 16 (the rework) and die at the dots +direct damage (as it is now) before reaching 32, so only bosses are affected by it. It’s a boss killing build. You should stop your mental gymnastics and understand that this is simply a nerf.
Nope, I literally didn’t say that it’s not good on a kickback, just stated how it works, that’s just your evaluation. What I did say is thatthe 15% dmg and rending are worse that the 16 stacks. Failed strawman. If you want to go and pull that kind of nonsense I won’t engage with you in good terms anymore.
So let me get this straight, you simultaneously believe that:
- bosses are one of the biggest threats on aurics and you use PBB only for them
- Gunlugger with 32 fire stacks destroys bosses
- But this is not power creep because it’s just bosses
I just don’t know anymore.
PS: I’ve stated from the get go this is a boss dps nerf, but a buff for all other targets. YOu’re the one who came here claiming you only use PBB twice a mission so it’s a nerf for you. I’m trying to be civil but we call this a “bad faith premise” and “probably not worth talking to” normally, because you’re straight up just lying. You don’t “only use PBB once or twice per mission” like you claimed, it’s an incredibly blatant false premise you made up for the sake of argument and it’s actually ridiculous that I even entertained this
So, on the kickback too or not?
Like let’s recap the convo. I told you that:
And your retort was:
So what did you mean by this? I took it to mean you’re saying it’s worse so you disagree, there won’t be gunlugger builds that don’t use light em up. What do you mean by “it seems worse” if not that it’s worse? Clearly it’s gun dependant, so how is it just “worse”?
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But fighting bosses is fun.
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So it is ok to trivialise bosses? Personally I think if you want mega boss damage you should have to get in their face and take some risk. And your weapon should probably be mid to bad at most other things if you get to kill a boss solo in 20 seconds or less.
They did that last time they buffed it to be slightly less garbage at fighting more than one elite at a time? It’s still one of the worst weapons in the game for fighting elite groups and hordes, how many more unyielding nerfs should it cop? Genuine question.
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Another falied strawman. Darn dude
Bosses when they are surrounded by elites and specials, as they usually are.
Correct. That’s not my problem, it’s fatshark’s. AGAIN, if fatshark wants to give gunlugger an option that kills bosses but doesn’t excel at killing other things, that’s good. But they are not doing this, they are just nerfing.
It’s simple, I’m saying light em up will still be the better option for dmg overall no matter the weapon you are using. And AGAIN I said “seem” because the updated hail of fire looks like a worse version of the one we have now, and as it is now I see no use to it.
Not “we” it’s just you. Sure you can’t fathom someone who plays preserving ammo and waiting for the best moment to use it.
Also you keep repeating that I use the thing twice per mission, a lie. I said I use it to kill bosses, which appear more that two times per mission in higher difficulties. Maybe you don’t play any higher than damnation?
But yeah just call me a liar and be done with it.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
So why did you take offense here
So you think the fire stacks are better on the kickback than 15% damage 15% rending? Despite you literally testing it and finding out it doesn’t do anything for the kickback? Why did you accuse me of strawmanning when I assumed this is what you meant? And now you’re saying it is what you meant?
Serious what the hell was this whole thing with you playing the victim just now about?
Now that we got the tantrum about he said she said behind us, why exactly do you think fire stacks is better on the kickback even though you literally just tested it and found out it doesn’t benefit from it on most enemies?
MAN.
The fact that it doesn’t do much on kickback, doesn’t mean that hail of fire will do better, why is that hard to understand? I can’t put it out more easy.
Kickback, gauntlet, rumbler, all of these are inefficient guns for a gunlugger, and as it SEEMS (AGAIN, because I don’t have the real numbers yet) will continue to be bad. Saying that something is bad doesn’t mean that the other thing is good.
People are taking it into Havoc 40 just fine as a big elite deletion weapon. I hate that it’s clunky as hell as much as anyone but it can still work.
I would prefer being able to play the Monstrous game mode without one dude deleting every boss in one swing and turning the mode into worse Hi Shock.
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So which is it? You can’t accuse me of strawmanning while you backpedal on literally every thing you say and pretend I’m putting words in your mouth. Pick a claim and stick to it, buddy.
Or are you saying fire stacks are better despite them doing nothing? What’s the logic? I guess at this point I’m just confused that you can hold an obviously wrong belief that you yourself tested to be wrong
Yes I can because that’s exactly what you are doing.
Isn’t equal to “does nothing” that’s something you have invented.
In fact my comment on it was
Which also does not translate as “does nothing”.
Stop translating things on you head to whatever you find convenient, or you will always be confused
Yeah, I guess 2 stacks for AoE would be ok
You know that’s completely fair and I respect it. T Hammer is kind of an awkward weapon in its core function so I’m just not sure how to balance it without letting it have that niche at least.
If they made the unpowered attacks a bit less garbage at dealing with groups of human sized elites or gave you a way to maybe kill up to two small elites per special then they could afford to nerf its boss damage a good bit. I still think bosses sharing an armour type with Ogryn elites is a bit awkward for damage scaling because T Hammer absolutely should comfortably one shot those guys, which makes it a bit trickier to take its boss damage down too much.
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Reminding you (I know you know), depends where you hit the ogryns (Crusher being carapace).
This would be a win imo, as it was in the past, trading boss dmg for non-boss es.
The explosion should probably take out clustered mobs with little to no dropoff.
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TBF, as we’ve discussed, they really just need to make explosions from ranged weapons receive ranged damage bonuses and GG and Rumbler will have viable lugger builds. I actually think Kickback will already be able to be run effectively with gun lugger (PBB is an insane DPS increase for it and the new guaranteed BLO proc is gonna be absolutely crazy for its ammo sustain).
Personally I’d rather see those guns have viable lugger builds than keep the light em up boss slaughter going (and that seems to be the direction they’re trying to go in). Though I’m still not convinced that build is actually gonna be bad with these changes. Like there’s a lot of bonus damage going around to help make up for lower burn stacks. We really will have to wait and see for that one.
I’m also curious to see what the guns with blaze away can do to bosses with PBB now they can get at least 4 fire stacks a proc. I imagine power from blaze away boosts the fire dot as long as you keep blasting. Could be kinda nasty.