Yeah I should really qualify when I say that I mean Reaper heads and Bulwarks, just kind of take for granted everyone reading knows Ogryn elite armour types but it definitely is lazy and unhelpful of me, so thanks for pointing it out for anyone reading not in the know.
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Absolutely agree with the explosions.
Ngl, I got a decent stubber with blaze away and I never took that blessing off, so I don’t know if it’s affecting the dot’s dmg or not, but I think it does. SO, rumbler and kickback will benefit from it, but with the stacks at 16 it won’t be “nasty”, it will be just fine. The gauntlet may not see much benefit from it because the buff is lost on it’s long reload, if I remember correctly.
But yeah, we’ll have to wait and see the numbers.
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Yeah I should have specified the slow firing blaze away guns that currently struggle to get much value out of right tree. You’re right of course, “nasty” is unlikely, but having at least solid boss damage for EG Kickback could really help sure up builds with it to be fully self sufficient.
I look forward to the discussions that follow its release and really just wanna get my hands on it already to see how the big man feels. I’m already a fan of him but his meta is by far the most oppressive so just excited to see how respectable fresh weapon combos can be made to feel.
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I’ve brought it up, and I asked already about explosions not benefitting from ranged damage buffs and got confirmation that that’s being investigated.
In the process I also learned that Hail of Fire has a different +15% damage boost that just indiscriminately applies to all of the damage you do as long as your gun is in your hands.
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Oh sweet so PBB will at least be +30% damage for explosions and GG special (last I checked close range damage bonus works on explosives?). Well that’s looking a little better at least. Thanks for pushing this stuff.
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Does this also include Burn/Rending from PBB augment skills?
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Burn from Light Em Up not applying to explosions is intentional. Hail of Fire is fully functional with explosions already.
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They should show us that in light em up description
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Not suprised but man… what a way to ruin something that could have been awesome.
Indeed it should.
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Different mindsets for sure, but 2 gunlugger rumbler ammo screenclearing is so blatantly OP that I don’t see how it’d be very awesome. They also let you still get a bespoke, differently tuned form of burn on explosion, which means they probably were aware of this exact dynamic and decided to not do it.
Shredder grenades need to be nerfed, not added to more classes with less restrictions.
Do you know what’s more op than 2 gunlugger ammo screenclearing?
3 gunlugger ammo screenclearing.
Do you know what’s more op than 3 gunlugger ammo screenclearing?
4 gunlugger ammo screenclearing.
Right? If you stack things almost everything becomes op. Even the TH. So yeah, indeed different mindsets.
But anyway, since this is not happening, who cares?
Shredder grenades are fine, you need to use two to kill pox walkers and specials (if they are close enough), 3 to kill armored elites. Having to wait 3 minutes to deal dmg is fine to me. If you nerf the dmg they do, people will stop using them again. Still, this is a problem of the whole balance of the game systems.
What needs to be changed/taken out is demolition team so you can’t spam the grenades, that alone would solve it.
Also, you are establishing a fake paralelism between the shredder from the grenades and the hypothetical area/dmg of the burn dots.
You misunderstood. I’m saying 2 ammo screenclears. Reading comprehension.
Proximity doesn’t matter. With the grenade tinkerer talent their radius of bleed is just below an ogryn nuke. With the bolt pistol blessing it can have more range than an ogryn nuke.
Except demo team replenishes them instantly given enough density. The same skill being replenished by what it does best is silly and needs to be changed.
Big explosion applying dot stacks is not actually a “fake parallelism”, the base issue with this is that explosions are inherently balanced by a damage falloff radius. By adding dot stacks you are directly circumventing this mechanic (because 8 bleed stacks are 8 bleed stacks regardless of range). That’s why 2 shredder grenades can kill more than an ogryn nuke does. Something similar would be true for rumbler grenades if they applied 4 burn stacks per shot.
I know the counterargument to this is “but the explode staff, flame staff and flamer can also do this” but that’s why they’re basically the only viable hordeclear picks on H40. Bad balance around OP things like that hurts variety.
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Okay. What is an ammo screenclear?
So it’s not a problem of the grenades.
I literally answered to this and agreed, read it.
The rumbler can apply 4 stacks of bleed, in close range explosion and nobody complains it’s op
I guess I’ll rephrase it: Gunlugger would be able to screenclear by expending 2 rumbler ammo. Maybe 1, depending, I dunno rumbler damage falloff stuff off hand. Keep in mind they get a free shot now.
Except you ignored the part where it already almost matches an ogryn nuke without that.
So you agree shredder needs need to be nerfed, but you’re in favor of adding the same dynamic to rumbler grenades, of which you have 28 and can use way more freely? Okay
“in close range explosion” would be the key difference here. It is in fact so close range it basically only consistently applies to targets the grenades stick to with adhesive, and often doesn’t even apply to the target you hit with the impact otherwise. To compare this to shredder grenades which apply all stacks at full radius is misinformed at best, dishonest at worst.
Or are you saying you want this mechanic to apply to PBB light em up rumbler grenades? They got a sort of similar version of it in the rework. You are aware of this talent yes?
While I think this may be undertuned, it’s the right idea. Letting PBB light em up apply to explosions without limit would just be senseless powercreep.
PS: In theory this should let you get back to 16+8 fire stacks on bosses, which you previously mentioned is all you use your ranged wep for anyway, so it’s something at least.
To begin with, if all you use PBB for is bosses, why does it applying to explosions matter to you? Turns out that WAS a bad faith premise, huh?
Lol, i was about to say a game with two gunluggers is a game with one gunlugger and one melee ogryn that’s out of ammo.
On the subject of Shredders, it is honestly amazing how QP isn’t plagued with grenadiers. Randos overvalue the heck out of krak
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Understood, asked just out of curiosity because when I said “If you stack things almost everything becomes op”, what you call a"screencleaner" (something that doesn’t have an official definition btw) is considered by my statement. So yeah, you have a reading comprehension problem maybe.
I did not ignore it. Considering the dmg both things do and in the amount of time they do, I don’t see a problem with this. The only problem is demolition team.
Wow a wombo combo of “so you are saying…”, and a straight lie. Amazing.
I literally said that shredder grenades are fine, demolition time is to be nerfed not the grenades. Reading comprehension. Demolition team is a talent independent from the grenades.
Plus…
Don’t you tell me you decided to assume once again something I never said for the sake of having a win? I mean, I never asked (nor affirmed) for light em up on explosions to match the area and damage of the shredder grenades. And right there (once again) you are making a false parallelism, you are getting confused with your own inventions.
I am aware yes, but I believe it’s udertuned as well.
So you are saying that because I think that adding that to the game would be cool, something that is not there yet at all, that means that how I play now with the current state of the game is a lie or bad faith???
Riiiiight… yikes man. You still don’t fathom being a team player huh? You really want to be petulant because I play different than you. I guess you would not believe neither that I brought a rumbler to havoc 40 and never ran out of ammo because I only used it to save teammates. Unfortunately for you, calling me a lier doesn’t make me one, and you need to learn that people who play and think different than you are not enemies.
I never at any point said “screencleaner” but go off buddy.
Ok, so you want shredder grenades nerfed by nerfing demo team. Very worthwhile distinction, thanks for getting on a whinge pedestal about it
What is the point of this whinge? You made the comparison, not me. I told you what the key difference is and why people don’t call it OP and now you whine that you knew? Why’d you make the comparison then? What am I even reading man
The last part of your post is pure projection btw. You’re literally just typing so you can have a stompy fit. All because I called you out when you said that you use PBB once or twice a match only. Nobody does that
I’m so sorry! Screenclearer* 
One thing is nerfing the grenades, and a different thing is nerfing a single talent. Yup it is different, specially when you are saying that I said something that I didn’t.
You started this comparisson, again you are getting lost in your nonsense.
That’s how I play. Sorry, not sorry.
And of course you close with a bandwagon fallacy. Typical.
I did not type Screenclearer at any point either.
You’re the one getting lost. That quote is about the rumbler bleed blessing you brought up. Again, projection because you misread and got lost in what was said.
At this point I think you are legitimately dyslexic or have some other problem of that sort and won’t let you suck time away from me anymore. Sorry man, and I swear this isn’t meant to be an insult, I can just tell I’m not getting through to you and it feels like that’s not a problem on my end.
Oh my god you two just kiss already
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