Less special spawns? Too many could be the problem?

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Feedback
1

I posted it on the steam forum but i post here too:

I think the biggest problem now is still the spawns of the specials, on Legend but even on champ there can be a lot of spawns of assassins/leech and co when in Vermintide 1, there was only 1 per moment even on cata, now we can be attacked in a horde or boss even with all the specials, it can be really cruel sometimes :confused:
If you make like 2x less special spawns, the hordes (or even horde+boss) could be doable and fun for everyone.

Getting grabbed by a packmaster for a guy and comboed with 2 gas rat who spam (and aim so well) is really hard, i can dodge a packmaster but when there is a leech + gas and co, it’s hard to avoid everything.

The damage is ok, harder to kill than in 1.04 but still doable and not hard with a team made for it (like for Legend) but the specials ruin everything sometimes…

2 specials per moment should be enough… (like <5min>?)

I know it was nerfed but on Legend, we take so much damage, there is still too many specials who spawn, it’s not fair, difficulty should be about fair challenge and not just 2 assassins and 1 leech 1 gas rat (or more) when we have a horde in the face (or with a boss). There is this thing even on Champion sometimes.

I play without a lot of problems Legend and easily Champion (I did a true duo run on legend and some true duo run on champion) but if i say that, it’s because new players were bored by that and i understand them.

We had 60k people, even with the people who played it just for the story or just for a moment (without the passion the biggest players have), there should be at least 20k players or 30k if the game didn’t have unfair stuff who frustrate so much.

Think about people who worked all the day, come back to the house at 5pm, do 1 or 2 games at 7pm and die every time after 15 or 20min of game because the specials spawns and too many dangers at the same time, it’s unfair and those people could just leave and not because they liked the game but they wanted switch to another.
I know the game is made for people who have the passion of Warhammer stuff (like me) and Vermintide but it’s sad to see so much people who left the game!

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There is obviously more specials than in VT1 because we now have abilities, passive, active, and without this amount of specials Legend would just be… well good for casual players, like you maybe or even me, but I also understand hardcore player who wants challenge.

We just need another difficulty imo.

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this doesn’t solve anything. legend is the reason it is due to people crying they couldn’t kill 10 enemies at once and stunlock elites. the nerf process will just repeat itself.

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I do feel (and I think it’s a known bug?) that sometimes the game starts spitting out two specials when it means to spawn one. I think that’s why some runs will have so many more specials than others, because if the bug triggers it seems to last for most of the map.

5

I don’t think that it is so much a bug as much as it is the developers feeling like they are in an arms race against player abilities/skill. Spawning increased numbers of specials that have the potential to instantly incapacitate players are being seen as a simple way to increase difficulty in a game where players can better equip themselves and learn to easily handle the other threats that the game poses (hordes, bosses). After a point, larger hordes no longer pose an increased threat, they just take longer to deal with with little to no added danger. In contrast, I’d imagine even the best players would have difficulty dodging eight Gutter Runners coming from multiple directions simultaneously.

6

The reason I think it might be a bug is that sometimes games seem to have an enormous variance in the number of specials; I’ve had plenty of runs where I feel like it’s highly challenging, and I’m on the seat of my pants, and others where it feels there are almost consistently two of each kind of special attacking at the exact same time. I know simultaneous spawns can happen, but it’s the difference between any two Legend runs that feels off.

7

Forced meta isn’t challenge.

Maps are a cakewalk if you just roll with four or three ranged champs (and IB in case of three). Even [mentally severly challenged] on-your-head patrol spawns are no problem to teams with Pyrotroll Sienna and Bowsman Krubs (as long as he wont bug out but just assume everything works normal). Same with bosses. Down that troll before he even has a chance to cross the bridge. Hordes take less time, bosses take less time, elites takes less time so your overall speed is way higher with ranged teams and thus the amount of specials and hordes spawning much lower while you are also dont have to engage in dangerous melee combat. Especially the insane special spawns trough bossfights are simply nearly nonexistant for ranged teams since the boss goes down so quick. On the top of that, with ranged champs annihilating those tripple gasrat paks or taking out two runners, a leech and two grabers in a row before they can get dangerous, a second after they spawn is absolutely no problem. Melee based teams on the other side don’t have at least one of those tweaks available to ranged an need to face those three chaos knights in a swordlength distance.
Chaos knights that awkwardly change direction a nanosecond before their hit would miss exactly over your head or slide a few metres in your direction while their hitting animation is still in progress. All that while at the top of some building two leeches start casting their storm with absolutely no chance to interrupt them for any melee char. Just to deal way less damage with melee anyway, even after the nerf (try to kill a troll with two melee survivors, spoiler alert: you wont).

So the choice is playing a super hard game that is actually not super hard but will just regularly end you out of the blue without a chance to adapt or react for the player or taking the meta route that eliminates most of those moments and playing a game that suddenly isn’t that challenging anymore.

The problem is that for some reason the, according to the devs, melee based Vermintide got completly balanced around ranged careers. Games manageable for teams consisting out of the most broken mechanics available? Better make it harder instead of balancing the careers. That leaves a black and white gameplay were you either fail or take the most overpowered stuff you can grab.

8

Actually it is a bug, a left over one from Beta.

The Spawn engine gets out of control every now and then and it goes in cycles. You can tell the Spawn engine is bugged especially when you see about as many specials spawning as Ambient Mobs.

So there will be almost no time on the board that a special has not spawned. Kill it, another 1-3 will spawn. It will be constant repeated specials. And usually double spawned specials of the same type in the exact same location. So you’ll end up with upwards of 6 at times. Ie… same as ambient mob spawns.

That’s how you can tell its out of hand. The spawn engine keeps spawning things and never really stops.

It only lasts for a few days… but in those few days not a single Legend map regardless of party composition will succeed. Or… if they do… it will be by luck. So it makes Legend a waste of time.

So you just step back down to Champion for a few days and eventually it goes away. Probably linked to server reboots or something.

Then in a couple days Legend becomes playable again and everything is fine.

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9

That makes so much sense. I thought it was always the deed contamination bug but there were times I knew my group was clean and things’d still go sideways constantly due to abnormal spawn rates.

If everything worked as intended, I’d say the more the merrier. They can throw all the specials in the world at me… as long as they fix the audio/spawn issues associated with them and balance the variety and timing appropriately. The problem isn’t specials themselves, it’s specials spawning directly into the play area way too close to the group, spawning soundlessly, and being able to harass the part from -well- outside of LoS (eg. gas rats being Tom Brady and Blight Stormers casting from behind a wall on the other side of the map). Gas rats are especially dumb right now given that they sometimes soundlessly drop a globe on you and you lose a huge chunk of health. Yesterday, Leaches were totally stealth in all but a few runs for some reason as well.

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10

I would have originally thought that too, except that I’ll do a quickplay, have it happen, everyone leaves or the party is disbanded… I then just host a game with Randoms myself who join. Same thing happens.

I have never run any Deeds ever as a host, so there’s no way its my machine caught in that kind of bug.

So I too know its not a Deed contamination bug.

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11

Yeah, and since it’s often hard to see the gas clouds, you can start taking all this damage, and not know how or even where to move to be safe.

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12

Or when two gas rats throw at the same time and what looks like a normal cloud is actually two stacked on top of each other, capable of killing a group at half health in about a second.

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