LEGEND is not challenging?

I only play legend now and can generally get into a legend game without warming up. some runs are super smooth, some runs can and will go pear shaped and that’s just part of what the game throws at you. sometimes you just get unlucky or a boss sound cue doesnt play. that can happen even on champion too.

personally think the game’s true difficulty should be champion (kind of like Heroic difficulty in Halo) to cater to the majority of the player base.

We need LASO. :wink:

or how about we just make the deed system something interesting where you can pick yourself some extra difficulty modifiers and maybe get some extra loot based on that (crazy right).

I really disagree with making the base game challenging because something you can do is not possibly something that even other 90 % can do.

Late game challenge especially after you are full of reds in good party should come down to deeds but currently they drop like crap and are seriously lacking in the combinations department.

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I’d want to see a quickplay mode for each difficulty that has integrated deeds mutators. And make regular deeds give better rewards.

Also, thumbs up for new enemy types or more move sets for existing ones.

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While I generally agree with you here, the completion numbers of skittergate, on their own, aren’t necessarily useful numbers. More than half the players haven’t completed the first act. Nearly 80% of players haven’t brought a single class to level 30.
This makes me assume that of the players that actually played the game to the point that they’d have reason to try Legend, a non-insignificant percentile have done so and are probably doing decent, one way or another.
I think barring some few players, the general notion is more that the challenges we have are maybe not the ones we should have. F.Ex. it’s a horde game, but the actual hordes aren’t the threat.
I assume it’s really a lot of players having a lot of slightly different issues with the state of the game, and it could be many things.

Not sure if you played WHC lately, but he can 3shot Chaos Warrior right now. Hes far from bad, close to being a fotm

3 fully charged headstabs with deathknell = 33.25 dmg = 4 stabs
With 20% you are able to do it in 3.
That’s fully ok for the skill required.
It makes him together with the one fully charged headstab storm and berserker kills (or 2 charded) quite fun to play.
It’s just that you can take the crossbow with the right breakpoint and bodyshot them safely over the whole map. That’s so not fun but it’s what every crossbow, Kuber bow and handgunner does all the time.
Not to mention headshooting CWs, stunlocking them and killing them as well in 3 hits (10%) with a handgun.

It always was like this, every game but if they ignore their core 20% base and focus on those weekend casual players from 80% playerbase it wont end up well.

There have been only nerfs to enemies and buffs to the players lately. And it actually hurts the high game difficulties in terms of challenge. Some setups are not that OP, they are strong but its been 6 months already and average play skill is a lot better than on the release.

Map knowledge, game mechanics, enemy patterns and maxed out gear. People know it all already.

Yes i do and “3-shot” CW´s as WHC doesn´t make things better. + I talked about the gap between the boss dmg. I wish a harder mode too, but i´m actually fine, that they fixed the spawnissues, even if there are not that much horde/specials like before. The game has bigger issues atm. The DLC “killed” a lot of stuff, that worked before.

Especially that is the problem. Ppl craft for breakpoints, got unlimited ammunition / no heatissues and if they eat a hit, temp health will do the rest. Together with tons of AP weapons and strong ultimates…GG. Nobody have to wonder about “too easy”, as long as such things are possible and easy to handle.

It´s just pain to play in a 4 - man geekgrp., who perfectly “abuse” the current game design and have the skill on their side. This is no fun… I don´t really get, why ppl don´t use the QP button, but wait for their mates or prefer bots.
I had this 3 - 4 times right now and was such bored, that i turned that game off. Playing, killing, dieing with randoms or non - elite - players is so much more fun and challenging. (+ those players take the game a way too serious)

The game should go back to more cooperation between the players. (more teambuffs, less “i can do all careers”)

e.g. Sienna got waveclear, Kruber got AP, Bardin supports / tank, Kerillian eliminates specials

and not:

Sienna - Waveclear? check, AP? check, Special - kills? check
etc…

But that´s probably too late to make a real “team - based - game” and a lot of players would leave, because nobody can play in a team today.

Unfortunately… A mechanic that the devs press out quite heavily also encourages the metagame to turn towards generalist builds. That’s Quick Play. As you don’t know what to expect, either for opponents or allies, you need to be able to fill every role at least moderately. If full group is heavily melee-focused, Specials will be a problem. Everyone has choices that can have troubles against armor, especially Chaos Warriors. While situation is better than before for boss encounters, they can still suffer too if there’s no burst damage dealers in the party. And ranged-heavy group will be at least fragile, and at worst will have troubles against hordes. So when you don’t need what kind of people and builds you’ll be playing with (and whether you fill fight rats, chaos or both, with the possibility of a heavily armored Lord) You need to be prepared for everything.

Luckily, playing with friends will lift some of those kinds of restrictions.

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My example is a bit pragmatic, but actually every career is able to do everything quite good… some even better and if the player know their careers role, all should be fine.
It’s sadly more solo atm.

So even 4 of 5 characters are in every game and they could balance that out. Sienna is and was perfect at waveclear, but especially a pyro is strong in every situation with her ultimate.

I think it’s possible with grp-buffs etc and in case of some weapons. (e.g.Kruber and bardin have more AP then others.)
Maybe they just have to fix their heavy armored CW?!
But as i said, i dont believe FS would go that way.

i wouldn’t count on anything changing. when they accidentally broke power scaling on launch it set this game down a path that they’re not going to go back to due to community outcry at the 1.05 beta phase, and unless they go back to some of the previous cleave values it’s always going to be pretty easy for a group that’s even just decent at the game. being able to stack up +damage values and one shot specials/elites isn’t inherently bad and is probably what the system was intended for in the first place, but when you can do so and swing just about any melee weapon and hit 5 targets in front of you, it’s all sorts of dumb and nothing is a threat to anybody who is even remotely competent at the game and can quick swap and fire.

it’s actually kind of funny to think back when merc kruber was valuable simply because nobody else could hit many targets at once, as i watch old videos and see my glaive get caught in slave rats. or when scrounger wasn’t a recipe for infinite ammo as your bow only hit two targets. not even going to touch things like FF changes or spawn rate changes either.

Kinda makes me sad that everyone goes for selfish buffs like why go with shalya buff or AoE potion buff if you can get 30%more temp health. Even in tree talents , no one picks buffs for whole team. I feel like with no temp health game would be more fun and team friendly. Ofc ranged meta would appear again, ammo replenish system needs some tweaks.

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I don’t think overhauling the game in almost any aspect is feasable to be honest. The best way to incentivize people to go for group buffs is to give them individual incentive to do so.
For example: Merc Kruber’s “Strike together” talent is one of the most altruistic there is. 10% attack speed buff is no joke if your whole team is melee oriented, and even on certain ranged weapons, it is a noticable difference. But you have to select between two very strong alternatives, it becomes tough to be altruistic: 15% more power during paced strikes or 25% defense. The attack buff is almost essential on certain builds to reliably hit break points. I use it on my great sword to be able to 1 shot chaos fanatics with a light attack bodyshot. Being able to hit that essentially means you can mow through hordes like a knife through hot butter. Of course, I have the power+ on proximity, but it isn’t as reliable. On xsword, I use the defense to counter the swords slow swing speed so I can eat the occasional hit and still keep swinging (and chasing bodyshot breakpoints is very demanding and moot - basically anything mob dies on light attack headshots anyway and you crit often enough that even bodyshots will suffice). Pair that with the reduced stalling from hits and you got a good package.
Strike together, on the other hand, gives you, the individual player, nothing but the feeling of satisfaction of giving your teammates also more attack speed. Which, in a fair world, would be enough. But then again, I play primarily for my own amusement and if I play merc, I wanna be slaughtering at max efficiency. So give me something that rewards my choice over two very strong alternatives by giving me SOME game mechanic reward.
How about increasing the bonus provided by paced strikes by an additional 5% just for kruber? How about also increasing the duration to maybe 8 seconds? How about recuding my skill’s cooldown a little bit anytime one of my team mates hits an enemy while under the effects of my paced strikes? How about increasing my crit chance by an additional 2,5% while paced strikes are on?

Same goes with RV and his pickups. I have already given examples elsewhere on how things could go that give RV something that nobody else has like extra effects when drinking potions, better bombs or further increased reload speed when taking the corresponding level 15 talents? I mean, Footknight gets all the bonuses from the level 15 talents, also.

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Well i play NB.^^ You could arque it´s selfish too, but i play it for my own reasons and one is “my mates have more heals for themself.”
There are too many heals (if the grp plays well) on each map too. Same with potions so a RV seems just good with ammunition or bombs.

That´s sadly a design issue… the WHC “elite-heal” is too low. WS´s lifereg would help tanks, but every squishy will get one-shotted so or so.
You could arque about the merc-AS, but even that is “useless” compared to the def stat.
I mean…

less inc. dmg > kill a horde overall 5s faster

Agree with that… i already told my opinion in my own thread and the temp- health discussion about that so… ^^

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You can try doing the same thing as me and my friend. Currently, some of deed modifiers add up and remain active during normal missions till you reset your game.

So basically we stacked up 11+ deeds with horde spawn frequency modifier and went to legend. Hordes were spawning pretty much nonstop on top of each other xD
I think the run took us about 45 minutes with a total of 3294 kills.

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Thats a very good suggestion, player should be rewarded for picking Team-oriented talents or setups.

The one with merc is very good.

Thankfully FK gets 2 shields if he picks it, reason why i pick it mostly. 1 for teammates 1 for myself.

It will be patches though, wish we could setup our own LEGEND+ . With own modifiers that add +% to EXP and higher loot dice rolls at the end,

  • normal LEGEND
  • More special spawns + 20% exp
  • Less healing pickups + 20%exp
  • spawns 2 bosses instead of 1 + 30% exp etc

Would be better to get a weekly randomly choses deeds playable on legend with various and completely random modifiers. With extra rewards

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I’d also like to see a new difficulty with higher friendly fire dmg.

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