LEGEND is not challenging?

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
1

As in title, in coordinated team Legend is a cakewalk. There is no challenge, and repeated Boss nerfs only makes it easier. In pubs if we don’t communicate we often loose, but there are plenty of people who talk and it makes legend easywalk. Deaths usually happens if people don’t cooperate enough. Not to mention average skill level per user after 6 months is already bigger than on release and game knowledge.

Now Troll got less harder, only challenging boss left is Chaos Spawn. Rest is just boring to fight. Combined with dmg-against monster buffs to melee weapons they are not that huge of threat.

Why not add a new Difficulty with more agressive enemies? More spawns of hordes, ambient, specials? Chaos Warriors and Bosses could use a HP buff. Just don’t make enemies hit harder,more HP or faster, because its not a fan mechanic. Increasing HP for elites like CW is fine though, hes a joke anyways as a threat.

More agressive AI director? Less health items spawned and ammo boxes, there are tons of them even on LEGEND.

Also it would be nice to get less scripted sequences and more challenging , intense finales. Righteous Stand finale is a laughable easy as a finale for this game, doesn’t matter if you block every corner. I was always defending in the middle right in front of bell because it was more fun.

How about making a chance to spawn 2 bosses at once instead of one? More ambient enemies on choke points? More intense hordes mixed in with elites or even chaos warriors? Dynamic number of special count? New abillities or attacks for enemies, like for bosses? Technicaly it would be nice to get a new type of enemies too, even variants of them like:

  • Chaos Warriors with Halberd/Sword&Shield?
  • Plague Monk with censer bearers that could leave plague-rot trail behind them?
  • Warplock Jezzails? ( sniper rats )
  • Forsaken as berzerker units ( mutated chaos warriors with tentacles and sharp fingers )
  • Stormvermin with sword and pistol?
  • Gian rats or broodhorrors? ( just a bigger 4legged ratto )

It would be cool to get 1 new enemy type per DLC wouldn’t it be? Tons of new replayabillity added to all maps.

Also it would be nice if bosses like Rat ogre and Stormfriend could use AI tweaks. Rat ogre should be more willing to use his jump to change targets and some enrage mechanic? To make him faster?

Stormfriend could use a more variety in his equipment, would be nice to see him spawn with random weapons, ie melee weapons with minigun or flamer with minigun or melee with flamer etc. His damage output is also too punishing, you take 50 HP if you get hit. I would rather have an instant dmg ( but lower depending how long you got hit) when flames touch you, there is enough of time to dodge it

Troll is in the weird spot but definitely not as scary to encounter as he was before nerfs.

Chaos Spawn is imo the most fun and challenging boss, maybe because he is very fast. Hope he won’t get nerfed but would like him to get some new attack moves.

Deeds could use a rework, being able use them in quickplay and add more variety to deeds ( like spawns 2 bosses instead of 1 or increases ammount of ambient enemies etc ) and better rewards more rewarding ones. Personally think deeds should be craftable with mats we are using, currently i have so much scrap and these jewel-parts i don’t even have anything to spent on. Perhaps crafting a custom deed or totally random.

My thoughts after playing this game for 550+ hours. I just don’t want to gimp myself ( with meme builds ) in order to have a challenge in this game.

3 Likes
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Yeah Deed should be played with quick play or at least with quick play bonus
i mean players can enter twitch mode lobby with quick play but why deed can’t?
i was entered 1 game with qp and it was really fun when i face choas spawn when i fought raksnitt

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:+1:

IMHO

  • The whole temp hp gain all the time
  • Bodyshooting all/most elites with handguns, crossbow and Kuber’s bow
  • Horrendously overpowering daggers vs monsters there fore making shade melt them
  • Chaos Warriors are far to easily stunlocked (should not be staggerable by anything but ults)
  • Far to lousily easy ammo/heat management
5 Likes
4

I like the suggestion of multiple bosses. The threat level of the initial boss spawn feels nice, now that you know you don’t have to grind for several minutes after all other threats are killed, so I like the nerf to boss’s longevity.

There already is a higher difficulty, but it’s a mod - Deathwish. Also Onslaught as a mutator difficulty is being tested and will be released at some point by Grimalackt. Hopefully these mods will get sanctioned at some point, because I agree Legend is just too damn easy.

It’s mostly the stagger and mass values that make Legend so easy, being able to penetrate 14-15 fanatics with one crossbow bolt is ridiculous. On Deathwish, mass values are increased, so ranged isn’t so powerful and Vermintide actually becomes a melee focused game, as intended.

1 Like
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I agree with Chaos Warrior being immue to staggers beside ults and MAYBE a person who stacks push/angle stat to high levels and using a weapon like 2hand hammer / shields. And whole level 20 talents needs a total rework.

Its like everyone gets 30% more from healing trait now . . its a mandatory choice.

1 Like
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I am all in for custom diffs but i just don’t like how most of these just increase damage on you, and bullet spongeify every rat.

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I don’t agree: add a new difficulty takes too much resources and time… and this games has a lot of priority that must be added/fixed. For an higher difficulty there are deeds.

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The ideas with the ogre or sf are great, but i’m not a fan of 2 bosses. There could be even 4 of them, as long as it’s not in a corner, a decent grp would be able to handle even this.
I’m not really happy about some melee buffs too, but i think the real problem lies in the careers now.

Shade or Pyro with conpot = gg…

The game would become harder if some AP weapons, the ranged meta and tons of cdr on some ultimates would get a nerf.
And don’t forget the tons of healing draughts behind every corner…

The rest said haxorzist already.^^

1 Like
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What constitutes a harder difficulty then?

Deathwish is a similar jump as from Veteran to Legend, it just increases the standard difficulty modifiers, but with added mass, which stops the game being so simplistic.

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I could see Legend getting slightly beefier versions of certain enemies, say, clanrats, Stormvermin, Marauders -
Just having every 1/10th have, say, 110% hp and 125% mass would throw off players a little and make hordes and roaming a bit more diverse.
Trolls were also overnerfed.
That said, I believe ranged is just to strong. Still. Not sure an extra difficulty is the solution.

That said, just raising the mass of all enemies a little would already constitute an extra difficulty - hordes aren’t threatening at all, right now. Maybe reduced healing for everyone.

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So that means issue here is a conc potion. Not careers. It was abused with huntsman now with shade. Imo it feels cheesy when you can cast ultimate 5 times. Either cap conc pot at 1 ultimate replenish or make it not regenerate during stealth

1 Like
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Like what? Game difficulty is tied to career balance it should be look at. Now all these nerfs to bosses were done because of vocal minority.

Unless you meant DLC

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That was just the best example… shade don´t even need a conpot right now and pyro´s ultimate got a short cd… hagbane elf does tons of dmg so or so with endless ammunition…
There are a lot of issues with the careers. Take a WHC with rapier and it takes ages.

1 Like
14

Legend is fine. If a coordinated team with optimized equipment and hundreds of hours worth of knowledge under their belt win, it is a sign for proper difficulty design. Everything is working as intended. For added difficulty, especially for pre-made groups, there’s modded realm and mods.

That said, I do wish there would be a deed-mode where you could add deed-perks on your on accord.

9 Likes
15

I kind of agree here. Legend has really gotten easy by now. Without selfish elfves who run off and other annoying things, it’s really a catwalk.
I would welcome some new enemies in the upcoming months and a new difficulty above legend. That would keep the game fresh and would definitely add to the the population.

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Dedicated servers, for example… a more substantial dlc (I love the new maps, specially to explore a dark area holding a torch, but two maps for 8$… a little too much!)… or simply more dlc (the plan has not been respected)
Careers and weapons need some balance (regardless difficulty)…
There are still some bugs…

Just some examples!

And, anyway, it is logic that an expert friend team can beat easly every game (not only Vermintide)… but I don’t find Legend so ‘‘banal’’… and then there are a lot of deeds very hard… there are mods…

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Legend difficulty is not easy for most of us, likely even most of those who actually play it. You have just become that good at the game. Remember the times when you were struggling on the lowest difficulties, in either VT? That’s how it’s been for every one of us. Now you’re conquering the highest difficulty (with ease, as you claim). Well done.

Besides, I don’t think it’s still as easy for you as you make it seem. It’s only easy if you can get lazy and still complete the run without troubles. If you still need to stay sharp, pay attention to your surroundings and communicate with your teammates, with lapses in any leading to troubles or even wipes, it’s still challenging enough, even when most runs get completed. If you feel you (and your team) can get lazy and still win, then it may be time for bigger challenges, at the moment in the form of Deeds and certain mods.

As I’ve said before in a few similar threads, the solution certainly isn’t tweaking Legend to be generally harder. The skill gaps between difficulties are already large enough, and they shouldn’t be any wider. And as I said, most players haven’t reached Legend level, at least not yet. Actually, only 10% of players have even beaten Skittergate on Champion and 3.6% on Legend. There’s how high your skill level is. We may get a new difficulty at some point, either through a mod being tweaked and formed into something fair (that’s something the devs have mentioned is a possibility), or from scratch. Until that, if you honestly feel you need more challenge, you need to make that challenge yourself.

7 Likes
18

is legend hard? maybe. maybe not.

did fatshark targeted legend difficulty to suit ur skill? maybe. maybe not.

and is fatshark gonna balance legend around the best skilled? the 2nd best skilled? or another tier below that?
i dont know. do u?

19

i’m rolling my eyes here.

yay. you’ve successfully mastered the game. you have learned the best ways to tackle each enemy with various weapon setups and classes, learned how to pace your runs, learned when to hold back or go all out. you have learned how to listen and react to all audio cues of specials, bosses, everything. you know all the tricks of the maps, the most efficient paths to go by, and where to position yourself in any situation for maximum defence and offence. and best of all you have learned to synergize with your teammates so you can all complement each other.

well done.

but please, don’t be so arrogant as to assume that your experience of the game, with a fully coordinated and skilled team, applies to everyone. you’re asking for legend mode to be harder, without considering that the other 95% of players are still struggling on legend, especially in quickplay where you don’t have nice, coordinated premade teams and skilled players.

this is like a heart surgeon who feels that his work is way too easy, and suggests that all heart surgeons be given tougher assignments because he feels unchallenged.

try solo quickplay and getting a 100% winrate for a challenge. good luck.

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Legend is not challenging once you understand how Dodging and Push Attacks work. Complaining about Range meta, enemy A.I., and temp HP is mostly irrelevant due to my prior point. If you watch most of the top tier players (e.g. Jsat), it’s also very easy to solo a Chaos Spawn on Legend with many classes due to terrain exploits and Parry.

With that in mind, Legend isn’t easy. The average player cannot handle playing Legend without at least 100~ hours played in Vermintide, which in itself is a feat few people care to achieve. The percentage of the playerbase who would dare to complain Legend is ‘too easy’ probably fall into the top 1-3% of the playerbase. From the developer POV, taking time to make a new, harder game mode for such a small minority of the playerbase is a bad investment. OP’s idea of Deeds getting a rework or being expounded upon is a good idea though, since Deeds are largely ignored at the moment.

7 Likes