There were magnetic interference, heat explosion, and other moving parts of the gun that create recoil.
If we will assume that a laser in some way pushes gas in a barrel of a gun - I believe it would push it forward - not backward.
Anyway, when passing through matter, photons (witch of laser consists) rarely collide with electrons and nuclei. So lasers as light can be either reflected or absorbed. There cannot be any other interaction.
There were magnetic interference, heat explosion, and other moving parts of the gun that create recoil.
The gasses will be pushed forward, but the Gun/containment will be pushed backward (action Reaction), it’s the science behind Rockets
That was a pure assumption - just for the sake of argument. Laser won’t collide with anything anyway as I said before.
A laser is not a bullet or a rocket. Lasguns do not use kinetic power to emit laser. There is no propellant behind the laser shot.
you are still tangled in this?
Light has no mass sure, but the entire package of creating the charge, storing it, focusing it, discharging it, cooling it etc etc is perpetum mobile right?
Every single part from expanding gasses inside/outside the barrel to cooling system so it doesnt explode in your hands even before shooting is contributing to kickback
What gasses exactly are we talking about? Is there any W40k literature out there actually describing any of this? If I were making a pulsed laser, I’d invest into high temperature superconductors precisely so I won’t have to deal with overheating.
In the end, light is not a projectile therefore recoil impulse is extremely stupid, no amount of Lorenz force can come even close to kinetic projectile numbers, and any discharging gasses can be discharged in a way that actually counteracts any other recoil impulses the rifle might have (see muzzle device design on conventional firearms - same thing). Sorry, defenders of lasgun recoil, so far no case.
Ok so once again another person who skips through 5+ components who each can produce a recoil SINCE WE DONT HAVE MAN PORTABLE LASER WEAPONRY yet.
Ok so its not expaniding instatly superheated gasses in the barrel/outside the barrel
Now go and please and tell me why cant
Be contributors to a kickback of a futuristic not yet existing energy based weapon
Regarding not having portable laser weaponry, see my question about literature.
If the answer to the above is ‘no’ or ‘I don’t know any’, can you maybe go and tell me why those components can produce inherently unbalanced pulsed forces comparable to kilojoules of energy typically carried by kinetic projectiles (bullets)?
I dont know how they can since they dont exist yet
Same sa you dont know how they CANT produce since they dont exist yet
You get my drift?
Lasguns irl maybe will have no recoil? Maybe they will have more recoil than .50cal machine gun
YOU or I or ANYONE dont know since components to create a beam of concentrated energy so strong it explodes your arm away since it flash boils liquids inside that arm at hundreds of meters
THAT is also man poratble, rechargeable by sunlight, almost doenst malfunction of explode, can be produced in the billions for dirt cheap
DONT. EXIST. YET.
My point isnt saying you are wrong, my point is this entire debate is useless since we DONT KNOW how to create a lasgun, what tech is behind it thus existence of recoil CANT just be around ‘‘light no mass lol’’
And my point is: today’s hammers still consist of a heavy hard thing on the end of a stick just like millions of years ago, knives still consist of a sharp pointy thing attached to a grippy thing just like thousands of years ago, a powder gun still consists of a barrel, a breach and and a lock just like a hundred years ago. There is no reason to think that any of those components would be fundamentally different.
Also recoil in firearms is considered one of the main factors that lowers the overall hit probability, so any and all new and shiny fantastic technology of the future will be bent to reduce recoil, not increase it.
Do you knwo warhammer lore?
I dont ask contemptously, its a genuine question
Cuz W40K imperium or even W30K imperium arent know for hardcore scientific method and progres quite the contrary
But before I go into a tangent about lorewise reasons why lasguns are, while amazing for our standards and in numbers work wonders even in W40k, they are bottom barrel tech in W40K universe
All the tech you mentioned hammers, knives, black powder fireamrs
cool … how are they relevant to future tech energy beam weaponry?
Lasguns inner workings are unlike anything we have right now, MAYBE some super secret army project somehwere has working almost scifi laser weapon that requires small nuke reactor to power it
BUT lasguns are man portable and as relialable as AK47s are today, dirt cheapo to produce, batteries are rechargable by throwing them into a fireplace (if neccesity requires) thus their inner workings are so far UNknowable and saying with utmost cetainty they wouldnt have recoil is laughably ignorant
No I must admit, I know it mostly by DoW games and some Wikia reading. That’s why I started my participation in this thread by asking for sources.
They are not, but the general pattern I alluded to when summoning them as examples always is - namely the incremental nature of scientific and technical progress and discovery.
By your own logic, you don’t know it because it is unknowable.
Now you’re just arguing for the sake of argument.
So W40k lore isnt star trekian where progres and science are on the top of the list
W40K is grim brutal and your living standards RN are infinitely better than 98.5% of the humans living in W40K
Food, shelter, water, security, FREE TIME you name it
Tech is there but a PDF trooper doesnt even have his personal communication handhel device
Seeing a Astartes power suit for a regular human in 40k would be as miraculous as if Astartes visited earth 5000 years ago
Lasguns against unarmored targets (or lightly armored) they are perfectly capable weapons packing HELL of a punch, with very good dmg/ammo ratio since you can adjust power output
Lasgun is the dirt cheapest weapon in the universe, there isnt a piece of tech more widespread than lasguns
They arent made with quality BUT quantity in mind
Their inner workings are for US high tech, but for them its literally AK47s complexity and any fine tunning - I think the cooling system is the most likely culprint responsible for recoil - is reserved for higher grade weapons like Kasrkin hellguns that produce inhuman rate of fire
Sure those shouldnt have recoil of the same level (or any) as lasguns we see on trailer
I genuinely don’t understand - if you’re arguing that that particular sci-fi tech is unknowable for us here at the moment, than why do you proceed to try to explain it one way or the other? If we consider that tech so unlike anything we know, than what is the point in this discussion whatsoever?
But if you want to speculate based on the tech we do know, than I completely disagree that my arguments were “laughably ignorant”. Go on, tell me how a cooling system can produce recoil, so I can call your arguments ignorant too.
No sane train of thought could ever lead to a weapon specifically designed to have more recoil.
Its geting tangled so I will try to put my point here and be done with it
We dont know how the thing works
Since we DONT know how the thing works saying it HAS or DOESNT HAVE recoil is pure speculation - ergo any ingame variant is fully valid gameplay wise
However thread was started that it MUST NOT have recoil - well this is big balls statement about tech that doenst exist yet
People like me gave several possible components which COULD generate that recoil, but not a SINGLE one was adressed
Not once did I say this idk where do you take this from
Superheated chamber that produces energy beam capable of blasting your arm off must be cooled so it doesnt explode to the operators face even after prolonged use - so cooling system cant be a noctua fan but something way more drastic WE DONT KNOW YET HOW WORKS but VERY easily could result in kickback
If you go and say IT MUST NOT HAVE RECOIL, all people who disagree with this have to do is to give POSSIBILITIES of how said MUST NOT BE RECOIL could be created
Probably because neither you nor anyone else gave a compelling mechanism by which those components (which we don’t even know exist in that weapon) generates a net impulse. I know that W40k is grimdark and everything, but I always assumed that the “sci” in “sci-fi” hints that the general laws of physics still mostly apply in that universe.
Because making a inherently recoillless weapon have recoil is adding recoil.
What makes you think it is superheated?
That’s kind of a maximalistic adolescent reasoning I’m not going into. Remember how I said ‘comparable to kilojoules of energy typically carried by kinetic projectiles’? - Yeah you chose to completely ignore it and proceed to name some mythical components off the top of your head without delving into the actual mechanisms of how that should work in your opinion and therefore support an interesting speculation. Apparently you just didn’t like the ‘must’ in the title and countered it with ‘cooling’
This quote, nuff said
You utterly missed the point of everything I said so far and this sentence just proves it
Laser pointer in your home is recoiless, sure
Energy based weaponry from the future that tears arms of and some models are capable of penetrating ASTARTES POWER ARMOR weak points (not just eyes) that is made from tech NOT yet existing CAN HAVE recoil
The point NEVER WAS that imperium made recoiless lasguns and then made them worse with recoil
POINT WAS that imeprial guard standard issue lasguns are quantity over quality made items where ANY part of the weapon can be crude to cause recoil but still good enough for the purposes of the weapon
Starting a thread and saying it CANNOT HAVE recoil and then push fingers into your ears when people give you several options which can cause recoil is childish my dude
This is also pure gold, i cannot decide if you are trolling or actually mean what you write
I will go now build myself a 40 thousand years in the future lasgun and tell you exactly how future tech weapon components that dont exist yet produce exactly the same amnout of recoil as modern day firearms
This enitre thread is about lasguns recoil = bad and stupid cuz laser
Everyone with a shred of imagination ''nono dont think of it as JUST as flashlight but a piece of tech that doesnt exist yet - now we list parts that COULD be EASILY responsible for recoil since WE dont know how they work ‘’
People who think its just a flashight - nono you dont understand light no mass, there is no scientificly possible way that non existing energy based weaponry can have recoil lol
Riiight, I’m the one trolling here. Mate, I did not start this thread. I haven’t said a word about laser pointers. Also, don’t know about you, but I actually re-read the opening post, and there is nothing about “must not have” or “cannot have” recoil.
How is this even connected in your mind? Why crudeness equals recoil?
So you don’t have any lore sources and you cannot venture an educated guess at actually explaining your own arguments about how different (alleged) components of a rifle can cause substantial recoil.
I was fully prepared to geek out on how those rifles might work, but instead you decided to bog this whole thread down in your argument against something that neither I or the OP actually said. Why are you still arguing then? Maybe let someone actually make an argument more compelling than ‘cooling = recoil’?
The onus is to prove how/why the lasgun would have recoil, not why it would not.
As for lore sources, from digging I could only find Gaunt’s Ghosts (haven’t read) that gives lasguns recoil (which is stupid), but in the vast majority of depictions I can only find lasguns without recoil, if they even mention it at all. In most places they seem to fire and there’s no recoil, so recoil obviously isn’t brought up. As far as games go, Space Marine and DoW both depict lasguns with zero recoil, to name a mere two. Fire Warrior depicted lasguns with recoil, but that game treated lasguns more like an AR firing coloured bullets - not to mention that game depicted Tau plasma weapons with no recoil whatsoever so I’d question the physics understanding of that game’s devs.
From what I could find, the writers for Gaunt’s Ghosts gave no reason for them having recoil so presumably it slipped their minds and they treated lasguns like ARs, seeing as other lore does not back them up on there being recoil.
If FS can’t explain why they gave these weapons recoil, they shouldn’t give it to them.
I anyway feel it’d be more interesting if the weapons handle differently, e.g. lasgun doesn’t have recoil while bolters and the like obviously do.
Mate, even if we can’t predict the future accurately, we can still infer details from our present physics.
I mean hell, if you wanted to you could argue for chainswords being a ranged weapon seeing as you can strap a rocket to them and voila. Doesn’t make it less stupid of an idea.
I don’t see how he’s trolling either, his comments don’t read that way to me.
How did we not see this? He’s an ork!