Las Weapons

[Crayvun]

So you know, the Kantrael MG1a is great and everything, but what about:

M36 Kantrael with Bayonet

I think that’d be neat.

Also also, what about, instead of having rubbish Laspistols that you can’t do anything cool with, you could instead go:

Hotshot Laspistol

Which, infact, makes the laspistol useful as a one handed weapon, as opposed to a uhhh… less good Lasgun?

Thats all I got for now.

Ave Imperator, In Gloriam Excelsis Terra.

[Khorne_Dawg]

@Crayvun

Ave Imperator, In Gloriam Excelsis Terra.

Here’s a translation for any Low Gothic peasants:
“Hail Emperor, to the glory of Holy Terra.”

[Reginald]

@Crayvun

Which, infact, makes the laspistol useful as a one handed weapon, as opposed to a uhhh… less good Lasgun?

I’m quite sorry to inform you that the lasguns are actually uhhh…less good Laspistols. This isn’t a joke. The las pistol is currently the superior weapon for 80% of tasks; especially boss damage.

[Antilus]

based thread

@Reginald

I’m quite sorry to inform you that the lasguns are actually uhhh…less good Laspistols. This isn’t a joke. The las pistol is currently the superior weapon for 80% of tasks; especially boss damage.

yeah cause of that pesky 25% crit chanche when ADS that make all pistols overperform

that makes sense for a gameplay prospective since they give you less ammo for sidearms

mg1a is a beast right now though, it rivals mk2 laspistol

[Heretical_Cactus]

@Crayvun

Also also, what about, instead of having rubbish Laspistols that you can’t do anything cool with, you could instead go:

Hotshot Laspistol

Then they would introduce Hotshot Lasgun and repeat of the issue…

Or either keep Hotshot as a unique thing for a Veteran ability (à la Outcast Engineer), or even introduce them as Lasgun that have a special mechanic (Overheat without explosion for example)

[kqgee]

Thank you, Sah! The chip in my head was hurting with all those big words.

[Snitch]

i still use the las gu nover the las pistol because of the damage drop off. but yea las pistols are better boss killers. all the las gun need is a bajonet that would fix so many things

[Crayvun]

I use the mg1a non-stop, with like a bazillion different builds. Two seconds with a laspistol in my hands and I throw it out the window. Useless. (I only use veteran class tho) I can crit constantly at any range with mg1a, using side dodges, or mix it up with deadshot (side dodges for stamina regain then).

Unless I’m really missing something here, the laspistols main issues is gonna be damage fall-off at range and less ammo, plus much much worse pen on heavier targets right? Issues I’ve easily solved with my mg1a.

Maybe under very specific circumstances your pistol outperforms, but in general, I doubt it.

@Heretical_Cactus

Then they would introduce Hotshot Lasgun and repeat of the issue…

Nah. I’m trying to help them here, not get things looking nice. Help them figure a way to make one handed pistols compete with rifles. (without making one or the other bad)

Do I want a hellgun? yes. But not at the expense of logical game design.

Hotshot Pistols: low ammo, high pen, low fire rate.
Lasgun: high ammo, low pen, increased fire rate?

Seems logical to me.

(this will probably never happen, but sometimes I get an idea and throw it out there you know? Got inspired looking through Rogue Trader weapons.

Which reminds me! The weapons in Rogue Trader… they are the same as the ones in any other 40k game.

m36 lasgun, laspistols, hotshot laspistols, sol pattern lasguns etc etc

Why is it only Darktide the felt the need to reinvent 40k weapons?? So they could say they had over 70 weapons, right? rant over)

[Heretical_Cactus]

@Crayvun

Why is it only Darktide the felt the need to reinvent 40k weapons?? So they could say they had over 70 weapons, right? rant over)

Why did Necromunda have to invent weapons ? Cause they didn’t have enough too ?

Most weapon we have originate from that, from Only War and from Dark Heresy.

Also it’s not like Rogue Trader didn’t invent quite a few weapons, you just stopped at the ‘iconic’/base weapons that people might see, which for some are also there.

@Crayvun

sol pattern lasguns

You’re going to need to show where they sourced that, as for the other only the Hotshot is missing, Kantrael Lasgun and Laspistol are there.

[Crayvun]

Alright yeah fair enough I didn’t play Necromunda (saw gameplay footage and got scared off )

Sol pattern is the terran variant of weapons. Digging through Dark Heresy, Only War, you come across those types of “patterns”, usually described as being “Better” than other ones. Similar to the Solar Auxilia carapace armour being considered “better” than the Tempestus stuff, which is current day.

Aaaanyway, I like you Cactus. You’re a proper nerd

[alsozara]

@Crayvun

Unless I’m really missing something here

Laspistol has much better fire rate, significantly higher base crit chance, vastly better hipfire and much better mobility for if you wanna shoot while moving, and is barely affected by suppression, while the lasguns basically require Vet suppression negation talent to function.

I dunno how their finesse mods compare exactly but the DPS you can get with MF on Vet for laspistol is pretty damn good. I haven’t used lasguns enough to say they’re categorically worse but laspistol is really good.

[Crayvun]

Interesting. Yeah spent a bit just theorycrafting. You’re right in that you don’t need the supression immunity talent, which means you can easily take Deadshot instead to head down for your Ammo and Shocktrooper talents.

But on the other hand, would you not need to grab the Longshot talent to compensate for ranged drop-off?

You guys given me some stuff to think on for sure. Though it feels weird equipping a pistol over the Lasgun (which wouldn’t happen if it was Hotshot, just sayin’ (or dual-wield!))

Edit: after further thinkings, giving the laspistol a whopping 25% crit chance while ads, and free supression resist, is bonkers. Because its all a wacky way of trying to give the one handed pistol variant of a lasgun, a place. (That isn’t, for example, being the psykers only option for a lasgun, which might have also made sense. Sorta.). But I think it just creates further confusion. Especially since a lot of this is hidden information, or not clearly displayed.

TLDR, free 25% crit, while ADS, not good way of balancing the laspistol

[Reginald]

Infernus + Dumdum is probably what you’re missing with the laspistol. Not the MK X. The original one. Mobility is a huge reason. lets you just kite big risks. I would much rather take a las pistol on vet into a true duo I-II-V-E-G. On vet (or psyker) it absolutely melts bosses while being fully competent at flexing into shooters and any other target besides carapace. I’ve been running a left tree build for the Kantrael Mk4 for a while and it is really fun to use with great damage output. Feel free to post your build and I’ll give it a shot. I could use something to do.

[Crayvun]

hmmm, okay buddy. Its experimental

I’m in a weird spot right now with Veteran, where I just want to push myself with headshot crits, fast movement, only using melee in a pinch. I’ve been testing all kinds of things, including MF. But this is currently my goto fast paced headshot build on Vet.

Straight down: Confirmed Kill > Krak > Tinkerer > Stockpile > Duty & Honour

Bottom looks like this:

Using Kantrael mg1a, Weakspot Crit and Ghost blessings.
Melee is whatever, but I like the mkVII sapper shovel for its multipurpose utility.

Wish I could fit in Exhilarating Takedown, as it’d fit so well. But I gotta cut back to get the core components of the build. So much gets cut out, that’d I’d like to have

[dragomusic]

@Reginald

Infernus + Dumdum is probably what you’re missing with the laspistol.

you do not need that to make Laspistol good, it is very strong even without it. It is just a very strong combo rn.

@Crayvun

But on the other hand, would you not need to grab the Longshot talent to compensate for ranged drop-off?

No??? High mobility lets you close in much faster to get in close, and additionally with no suppression modifier it has good accuracy over range even if it takes a couple more shots.\

If you only want to shoot constantly, which I would strongly recommend you not to do, it might not be the gun for you. But you can play a very strong ranged focused build with vet or psyker on it.

[Antilus]

i’d go this with smallarms (las weapons included)

if you want you can sacrifice this part

and go frag grenades and put the last point in focus target, i went this way because i wanted to hit both of the 5% health nodes

[Crayvun]

@Antilus

Its purely for going wild with Deadshot, side dodging etc hitting headshots while ADS and getting your stamina back ready to perfect parry the mauler that just dropped out of a mousehole in the ceiling behind you.

Idk, bear in mind I try almost anything on the mg1a, I have found the stamina and toughness from that talent to be lifesavers. But at the same time, there are so many other things I consider swapping in. I’ll take a good bit of time reading through your linked build, though, as I respect anyone with the experience you certainly have at this point. Same with Regi. You guys are true Veterans at this point.

[Antilus]

got you, if that is your plan you can go like this

its actually such a good idea that i’d try it myself, i’m also a shovel and mg1a enjoyer

@Crayvun

Same with Regi. You guys are true Veterans at this point.

nah hes not, hes a zelot

i’m still perplexed about the build though, getting shot give you so much more stamina back that any talent that give you stamina feels useless to me

its an inbuilt mechanic

at 5 stacks you get this back

compared to the stamina you get when your thougness gets damaged is null

this would be even better imo

the mods are not worth it for me

decent dps on crushers and my lasgun has no carapace perks on

also you got so many anti armor options that you could just dump oneslaught and get what you want

[Antilus]

this is weird though, it says that i’m getting 5% stamina back each stack, but i’m getting 12% with 5 stacks, something is wrong, i should be getting 25% back! (which is still low compared to getting shot)

OH ok never mind, i get 25% back, but when i shoot my last shot it gets drained by DeadShot so i don’t notice

this should work, i dumped rending strikes and its still 1800 dps on crushers with foldable

[Crayvun]

Okay, I’ll give it a shot! You swear by the brittleness then huh? I do like that it gets the stamina regen node before it though, seems smart. I am going to miss Shocktrooper, I’m tellin ya. Them zealots with shotguns hoover up that ammo like its candy. But, sacrifices gotta be made!