[Kruber(2) Hunt / Saltz(1) WHC] +50% HS damage bonus

[SEPHi27]

Hello,

Edited, I posted in a second reply.

Kruber Huntsman and Saltz Witch Hunter Captain, have both +50% damage bonus talent in their talents.

I tested in modded realm with “show damage” mod, and “creature spawner” mod, as cataclysm difficulty, I checked damage outputs in many different ennemies, made a long test, and it’s always the same. while description says +50% damage bonus with HS, you see the output true values always far from +50% !!

Some samples :

Note that staggering feature or not, etc, does not affect the output ratio significantly, I mean we are always far from +50% in any case, any melee…

WHC [falshion, first light attack hit] (it is same behavior with any melee)

VS a Chaos marauder head hitbox :
WIthout the talent, damage output was 35.75
WIth the talent, damage output is 43

Gain : 43/35.75 = 1.2 (which means +20% and not at all +50% as described !!)

- / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - /

VS a Chaos Warrior head hitbox (ordinary hit - no crit):
WIthout the talent, damage output was 4
WIth the talent, damage output is 5.75

Gain : almost +44%, best one !

- / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - /

((((
Same with crit :
WIthout the talent, damage output was 30.75
WIth the talent, damage output is 33.75

Gain is almost worse, for it’s near +10%, far from +50% announced xD
))))

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- / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - /
- / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - /

Kruber huntsman [Executionner, first light attack hit]

VS a Chaos marauder (ordinary hit - no crit)
WIthout the talent, damage output was 41
WIth the talent, damage output is 53.5

Gain : +30%

- / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - /

Kruber huntsman [Executionner, first charged attack hit]

VS a Chaos Warrior (ordinary hit - no crit)
WIthout the talent, damage output was 81
WIth the talent, damage output is 102

Gain : +26%

- / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - / - /

Need some explanations. As it’s not said, +power bonus, but +raw damage output bonus.

Ok maybe there is a kind of resistance, or something else, but description is not true then, it needs a rework or another description to get it true or accurate.

Thanks for reading.

[SEPHi27]

Aaaah, or I maybe got it.

It’s the “bonus damage” headshot itself, which is upgraded up to +50%?

But the description makes confusion !

EDIT : (enhance power talent for the test, to not interfer with any other bonus)

Falshion cata vs marauder

With talent
No-HS : 1375
HS : 3300
Delta 3300 - 1375 = 1925 raw damage gained

Without talent
NO-HS : 1375
HS : 2750
Delta 2750 - 1375 = 1375 raw damage gained

Raw gained ratio from the one to the other 1925/1375 = 1.4

With talent
Falshion cata vs rat SV
NO-HS : 325
HS : 1200
Delta 1200 - 325 = 875

Without talent
NO-HS : 325
HS : 950
Delta 950 - 325 = 625

Raw gained ratio from the one to the other 875/625= 1.4

+40%???

Let’s name x basic damage (no hs) we know it is in my example 1375, and y bonus HS damage

Basic damage + default bonus damage when you have not the talent is :
x + y = 2750

Now let’s take the talent we have this :
x + 1.5y = 3300
(yes (1+50/100) = 1.5)

So x = 3300 - 1.5y
As x is the default basic damage (without hs) we know in my example it is 1375 let’s replace it
=> 1375 = 3300 - 1.5y

Let’s solve this small equation
1.5y = 3300 - 1375
1.5y = 550
y = 550 / 1.5
y = 1283.33

y = 1283.33, which if this makes 1925 when it is multiplied by 1.5, and while you have the talent hs bonus : 1925 + 1375 = 3300 is ok, does not give 2750 when you add it to basic damage 1375 for when you have not the talent.

As for 1375 + 1283.33 = 2660 (rounded). Instead of 2750.

So there is something wrong somewhere. Or maybe like Drakonhammer explained, something else interacts in the calcul.

To fit good regarding this eq. system we should have had as x, x = 1650 (as basic damage no hs), and y = 1100 (as basic bonus hs damage).

And indeed x = 1650, y = 1100 are the real solutions of this system :
x + y = 2750
x + 1.5y = 3300

[Drakonhammer]

At least in the past, it’s always been an increase of 50% to the headshot damage bonus (1.5x), not 50% more the total damage. Like how 20% crit power means 20% of the critical damage bonus (also 1.5x), which is 50% baseline, 20% of 50% being a 10% increase.

So with 50% more headshot damage you would expect a 25% to total damage on a HS (from 1.5x to 1.75x), 20% seems a little low.

I’m not 100% certain on the mathematical formula behind the critical headshots (let alone whether it’s multiplicative or additive, I believe it’s additive), but the HS damage bonus applies only to the HS component of the damage, not to the critical damage bonus component. Hence the damage increase is less overall relative to the innate damage of a crit.

So with 50% more damage on HS you get 1.0x + 0.5x + 0.75x = 2.25x damage instead of 1.0x + 0.5x + 0.5x = 2.0x, which is roughly a 10% increase.

I hope that clarifies things! All that said, there have been a lot of issues with criticals and headshots in the past where the damage profiles have accidentally been switched on some weapons or other issues, so it’s good that you’re taking a closer look at them to find out whether they’re working correctly!

Edited for clarity. Also: the executioner’s blade (unlike the falchion) is one of the weapons that have different headshot profiles/better HS multipliers, so the talent will interact differently with that weapon (hence the higher damage increase).

On the falchion vs CW scenario I imagine the difference in the damage increase is due to interactions with armour and the non-armour-piercing vs armour-piercing components of the damage you deal. Falchion is also a little weird in that it was nerfed specifically against CWs, it works fine against SV.

[Fatshark_Hedge]

I have no idea, that’s a lot of numbers! I’ll see if we can get a designer to chime in here