Kerillian's 4th carrier idea, Wardancer!


Hy all Vermintide fans!

I’d like to share my personal imagination of Kerillian’s 4th carrier for Warhammer Vermintide 2.
It’s just my idea with possible mistakes so please be a bit understanding. Sorry for my english

Wardancer!
Some arguments why I think it could be a possible 4th carrier.

  • As we know Kerillian is a wood elf or Asrai and wardancers fill importan part in the wood elf warfare.
  • Wardancers are, not all but mostly women so Kerillian fits for this role.
  • The agility of Kerillian is perfect to be a wardancer. They dont wear heavy armor, just like her and I cant imagine Kerillian as a fully armored eternal guard or something.
  • There are some weapons which are used by wardancers Kerillian already has so no need for a new arsenal of weapons to create a new carrier and she could use these next to the new ones just like the new Grail Knight Kruber but of course not all of them.
  • Wardancers are more melee focused warriors with less ranged possibilities so wardancer could give different playstyle then the current ones. Are you getting bored to get hagbane to your back?! Wardancer is the best elven choice for a companion in your team.
  • About another speculation, Kerilian as spellsinger (a wood elf mage) is just simply too much work for just a carrier, spells, staffs, and so.

Her story!
It could be anything maybe to restore the weave what she always talks about starts with restoring the balance in her soul. Wardancer are so balanced and consistent warriors when they fight it seems like they are ,dancing” with their weapons. No more hiding, no covering her face with helmets hoods and masks and just a little bit more opened to the world. Yes wardancer doesnot wear helmets so a perfect opportunity to show her face and hairstyle which could give her a very unique appearance.

Weapons!
First the weapons which she could use just like the current carriers. Cause as I mentioned earlier Grail Knight Kruber will have acces some of Kruber’s weapons like greatsword two handed hammer and maybe executioner.

  • Dual swords
  • Spear
  • Sword and Dagger

New melee weapons!

-Asrai spear
It is a special wood elf weapon, a spear with blade at both ends. Why is it different? beacuse of the animation thats all. With new animation you can create unique weapon like Grail Knight will has the longsword which is like a greatsword with diff. animation. Asrai spear could be usefull weapon. Quick swings with both sides and powerfull thrusts. Maybe it could be a little bit shorter than the original spear.


-Sword and spear
Yes sounds a bit ridiculous but it’s lore friendly. The best wardancers the shadow dancers use both weapons at the same time. It could give a very enjoyable and spectable combat. Yes of course its harder to make something like this absolutelly new animations with different types of weapons both hands even with different reach, but could be awesome.
SwordandSpear
Missile weapon!

-Woodland Javelin
Actually wardancers dont use missile weapon but without it it would be a too much nerf for an elf J. Sisters of thorn use throwing javelins in the wood elf army book so it would be lore friendly. A bit similar to the slayer but this could be the only weapon which we could bring to the battle as a second choice. Maybe a bit difference, unable to call back but slowly respawn in her back. Throwing spear could be another spectacural and unique weapon for the game!
FD_Elven_Lance_Grn_E2220H09G-14
Passives, Perks, Traits, Tallents!
This is the most difficult thing to make a balanced but not overpowered carrier. I just write some ideas which could be possible, but I wont write any percentage and duration time. I think wardancer would be a squishy carrier cause she doesnot have armor so her abilities based on agility and a new thing, influence enemies movement speed. Just like water effect

Passive Ability

  • wardancer: Successful melee or ranged charged attack grants movement speed for ….sec

Carrier Skill

  • Howling Banshee: Kerillian does a warcry. Enemies movement speed reduced by % in a radius. It could be similar like water effect on enemies. As every shout enemies get a stagger

Perks

  • Eternal huntress: Enemies hitted by throwing javelin are move slower for a short time.
  • Rebirth of the oak: Throwing javelins slowly respawn.

Tallents
level 5:
Wave of blades : Striking multiple enemies in one swing grants temporary health based on the number of targets hit. Max 5 enemies.
Precise strikes : Melee killing blows grants temporary health based on the health of the slain enemy.
Lileath’s blessing : Healing yourself with a First Aid Kit or a Healing Draught also heals your nearby allies for 20% of their maximum health. Removes any wounds.

level 10:
Ambitious huntress: Kerillian starts with additional throwing Javelins
Dance of the Asrai: Increases Kerillian’s attack speed by %.
Keep your distance: Increases push-attack damage by %

level 15:
Mainstay : Deal 40% more damage to staggered enemies. Each hit against a staggered enemy adds another count of stagger. Bonus damage is increased to 60% against enemies afflicted by more than one stagger effect.
Smiter : The first enemy hit always counts as staggered.Deal 20% more damage to staggered enemies. Each hit against a staggered enemy adds another count of stagger. Bonus damage is increased to 40% against enemies afflicted by more than one stagger effect.
Enhanced Power : Increases total Power Level by 7.5%. This is calculated before other buffs are applied.

level 20:
Sister of Thorn: Successful charged ranged attack slows enemies movement speed an additional %
Shadow Dancer : After a successful charged attack the time between the next two dodges are reduced by %
Asrai Retaliation : After a succesful charged attack the next push attack doesnot costs stamina.

level 25:
Blade shield: Every succesful hit (or kill I dont know the effectiveness) decreses the stamina cost of the next block by %, stacks up three times.
Huntress of Orion: Enemies hitted by throwing javelin are more vulnerable for Kerillian’s next strike.
Know when you strike: Every 5 hit grants a guaranteed critical strike. Critical strikes can no longer occur randomly.

level 30:
Scream wave: Increases the warcry radius by %
Free soul: Warcry also increses Kerillian’s movement speed by %
Call to hunt : Warcry grants movement speed for the whole party

Thats all in nutshell. Thank you if you red the presentation. Share your oppinions int he comment section. And if you know any way how could this little idea reach the devs somehow just for a check please tell me, it would mean a lot to me.

13 Likes

Nice worked out idea!

I am not to knowledgable on lore but it looks lore friendly.
One question: wouldn’t she be a bit similar to handmaiden?

From just reading trough the talents they seem fine as sometimes they get suggested and are very strong. One talent ‘asrai retaliation’ would be a little too safe to use i think.

1 Like

Thank you!

Yes as I wrote there are of course mistakes.
About the retaliation maybe not free at all just half the cost.
Yes a bit similar to the handmaiden, I tried to avoid the similarities with especially the ranged weapon, but in the tallents there are similarities I know. Maybe with remove some her own movement buffs and concentrate on debuff the enemie’s.

1 Like

Talents are not an easy thing to come up with. I don’t see anything wrong with the warcry passive and i think it’s a nice idea (ofcourse depending on the numbers). I’m not very good at coming up with original talent ideas so i wouldn’t rlly know.

1 Like

I agree Wardancer sounds like a good idea. It was also the first thing I thought of when fatshark introduced premium careers.
double tipped spear and spear and sword could be very nice.
The passive ability seems a bit weak though. I don’t think you would notice a small increase in speed when you are in combat. Maybe increased dodge range? Maybe that would go a little bit too far into handmaiden territory :confused:
The carrier skill also seems like a worse witch hunter/merc skill. These don’t just knock down but give buffs as well. I would prefer an increase to power for the whole party for a short amount of time
Perks are nice but too focused on javelins. What if i don’t want to go with them?
Most of the talents look ok, some are a bit op though :smiley:
My main concern is that wardancer needs to be different from handmaiden. She already does the speed and dodging stuff. If that were given to wardancer too it wouldn’t be very distinct.

Out of the all suggestions I’ve heard for Keri the Wardancer fits really good along the rest and doesn’t stand out as some other ideas. 2-3 new weapon ideas also sound good and the Wardancer could take current Grail Knight/Slayer spot for Keri careers as mainly melee career.

Won’t comment on talents and skill but career as a whole is good template for ideas and I really see myself playing ranged-lacking Keri :slight_smile:

1 Like

Bro,

I personally think we should get Phoenix Guard Kerillian - a class, where she actually SAYS NOTHING AT ALL. No mayfly lumberfoot trash talk :slight_smile:

Remember Phoenix Guards vowed to SAY NOTHING. Amazing class.

Weapon : Burning halberd

As for ranged weapons - maybe she could have a magic ring with 2 projectiles, that slowly regenerate overtime, but like super slowly. In Warhammer Fantasy Battles, you could have equipped rings on heroes that had some projectile spell, like small fireball etc. Something like throwing hammers but for elves.

ULT: Some AOE stagger that burns enemies around her and Causes Terror: she can smash the ground and all small minions would just start running away for 10s.

4 Likes

Switch to Shadowdancer and I might agree with you @aron1488

2 Likes

Shadowdancer would be my prefered choice, too. Aggressive melee and support hero (yeah, would be akin in concept to GK, but whatevs, the choice of possible Wood Elf “professions” is limited, there are no real other elf races, and her carreer not being her “main race” would be weird), weapon choice is spot on as described by OP, only dual swords, dual daggers, sword and dagger, spear (and 2h sword. wardancer, and 2 melee slots - and throwing spears as the only ranged option, akin to Slayer and throwing axes (would be an interesting concept for WS and HM too if available… also FS: Starfire Bow for Hm when pls gib?), as suggested by OP (good job there!)

Wouldn’t be too sure about a shouting ability, would love to see more of a, aggressive CC ability (maybe a couple of swift strikes that make her invincible for a short time and automatically hit all nearby enemies in their weakspots)

Also, idea for another perk: Shadow Coils: 15% chance for any attack that hits Keri to do 0 damage (can be increased to 20% maybe by talent)
Woven Mist: Striking before the enemy can react, Keri’s melee attacks ignore shields.

Could also see a talent that made all of her light attacks armour piercing.

Oh boy, I really like this idea. Really good job there, OP!

2 Likes

This sounds weak.

I like the Wardancer idea, my only problem is that it would be a good bit similar to Handmaiden, even with the talents and the javelin idea.

This depends on how Fatshark uses their resources within the five month span they allow themselves to make a new season. If we were to compare what they could do to, to this season. They added a new weather variations for 13(?) maps, new cosmetics, two new weapons and a career. I don’t see it as impossible to make the new career a support caster for Kerillian. I think this is only possible if they put all the resources into it, which may be a problem in itself but I think it might ultimately be the coolest thing they could do.

The amount of resources they have also depends on how successful previous seasons have been, and also the corona virus. I have high hopes though.

hmm… White Lion or Loremaster of Hoeth. There is no need for more of those fallen wood-dwelling barbars now is there?

ny1

3 Likes

Surprise would be: Dryad.

I think it would pretty much be somewhere between HM and Shade, and that wouldn’t be too bad. I can’t see her getting a real “tanky”-tank carreer, as Keri is all about the offense, and she does lack a designated “CC-melee” carreer. Shade is more priority target, and I could definitely see Wardancer filling this gap.

Most other options in Wood Elves “units”/professions would either be spellcasters (full-fletched spell-caster carreer with a similar option of “staffs” as Sienna is simply too much effort, considering they would only work with one carreer, and - as in Sienna’s case - for all her carreers), cavalry (moot and pointless, asmost wood elf cavalry is simply mounted infantry, anyhow, so you couldn’t pull a “Foot Knight” / “Grail Knight” on her) or stuff that is simply too similar to Handmaiden in design and style. Of course, you could design her as a tanky-tank, hey, Kruber has two very disctinctly different “Knight” carreers and it works, but I don’t see it working because it would still be wood-elves. Grail Knight is at least a Bret, noticably different style and approach to design.

Wardancer/Shadowdancer could, as a template, be Keri’s “Slayer”-Type carreer, with more of an approach towards CC than towards single target damage. The concept is pretty straight-forward, one that already exists with other heroes, and almost self-explanatory as to how abilities could look like.

2 melee weapons might become too much of a “default” for carreers, though realistically, I can only see it happening on her. Don’t think we’ll see that on Victor (seriously, if his 4th carreer isn’t going to be tanky Warrior Priest, they’d be fools, as this is one of THE most requested things when it comes to new additions, AND it would make total sense, AND it would Victor a good defensive-tank carreer and maybe designated CC hero. FS pls do eeeeet), on Sienna only if they “pacify” her (similarly to a spellcaster Keri, she would need a complete new set of melee weapons apart from 1h sword. Not worth the effort), and Bardin already has Slayer.

It would give them incentive to introduce throwing spears for her, something that would give all of her other carreers an AMAZING new spin (I do think it should exclude Shade, since she already has an exclusive ranged and cumbersome throwing spears seem… off on a “stealthy” hero), especially WS, and limiting her arsenal to dual wield, spear and 2h sword would also make the addition of sword and spear a given (a weapon that should also be available to WS, too).

I mean, they did surprise us with GK and it is not unfitting at all, even though with Krubs being an Imperial, there would have been ALOT of options (warrior priest of Ulric was something that would have been a similar concept, but I guess it was a.) too similar to Slayer and Zealot in Design and b.) they don’t want two Warrior Priests, given that Victor will DEFINITELY be a WP of Sigmar :wink: ), but as long as they are not going to become super random and exotic and stay within Keri’s “primary race” of Wood Elves, Wardancer is pretty much the only concept that is distinctly different from all her other carreers and also from other available wood elf “units”. If that makes sense.

Handmaiden has good CC with her stamina regens and push, but I can see where you are coming from. Wardancer would be to Handmaiden like Grail Knight is to Mercenary Captain. I wouldn’t mind this.

The ‘Spellsinger’ career can only have her two new weapons be staffs or glaves, and they would have their own winds of magic mechanic. So instead of overheating and waiting to cool down by ventilating, there would be a pool of magic at that you would go throw and then you can wait for it to come back. I don’t think every weapon added to the game needs to be for every career, since you’re buying the career you are also getting the weapons. I see them making the staffs possible.

Well gameplay comes before lore at Fatshark, (correct me if I’m wrong since I don’t know much about Elf lore) I don’t think theres anything that says that Spellspingers can’t use spears and daggers. Same way that Ironbreakers are known for their shields and IB can use a two handed weapons. Or how Victor can use weapons outside of the Templar order.

By Sigmar, yes!

I agree with this, Javelins would be a very nice addition. Also I’m not sure if you have mentioned but you should be able to pick the Javelins up after you have thrown them.

Yeah ultimately I think Wardancer/Shadowdancer is the best idea they could do if they don’t want to make Kerillian a magic user. I think what you have come up with is defiantly good, I just think fundamentally you’re going to have over-lap between Handmaiden and Wardacner and I think another caster in this game would be cool.

2 Likes

I’ve seen this suggestion before. Wardancer is by far the most lore-friendly elf career for Kerillian. All of the others like mages, loremasters, white lions etc are more and more of a stretch. The new weapons you mentioned are also very cool.

1 Like

I phrased that a bit awkwardly. Spellcaster Keri obviously would need a whole set of ranged weapons, while a “pacified” Sienna would need a whole new set of melee weapons.

See I was thinking something along Wardancer/ Shadowdancer as well

Shadowdancer would probably be best as it’s an “elite unit”

So more of a melee focus like GK and Slayer; could to the same sort of “retrain” they did for the Bretonnian Sword for her dual swords and spear to make them more unique to the new class (Shadowdancer blades/ pike/ spear)

Ultimate could be a shadow clone that she calls forth to help attack/ be a distraction; more DPS and utility combo

Talents focused on perhaps focusing on different types of enemies killed. Ratmen, Chaos, Beastmen; Armoured, special, monster/ boss. Or the more enemies you slay during a map, the stronger she gets, or more faster attacks, dodge, and movement speed

Big focus on horde slaying, and wading through enemies

As long as it’s a Wood Elf unit (Rather than another High Elf/ Dark Elf) I’ll be happy since Wood Elves don’t get the same love that the others do ;_;

Having thought about it, I’d really want a Sister of the Thorn class for Kerillian.
If we’re giving Kruber the superhuman class, we might as well give Kerillian the ultimate wood elf class.

2 Likes

I too would love that

But the only problem is the whole it being a cavalry focused unit, and having to add in possible spells/ magic she could use which would step on Sienna’s role too much (Which in itself is going to be SUPER hard to come up with a possible 4th unit that would work)

Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu