I have some problems about this weapon. I gett that it should be jack of all trades, but even with 80% damage roll it is just slightly stronger than MG IV. It consumes 3 shots per shot and has worst ammo pool of any lasgun. There is only trade offs with this weapon and no upsides. It should have more shots than MG XII, less shots than MG IV, damage difference is too small between MG IV and Ia to ever choose Ia. Maybe give it something cool? Like it would cost 5 shots but shoot 3 las bolts as burst (esentially making it scab shooter* weapon) and maybe weakpoint damage modifier to reward good shots? Hell I think it could you 210 base damage per shot at 80% damage to actually make it middle ground weapon
weapon could in theory be also more efficient agaisnt armor and unyielding than its counterparts to give it something unique like maybe 15% carapace pen and touch more flak pen.
I really like weapon eastetic and especially sound is preffered to any other lasgun. I just wish it was bit more viable. MGIV out DPS MG Ia, and I dont think it should be case.
Now I am not saying that all of the mentioned changes are esential to make the gun viable, take this as individual ideas that could by itself make weapon worth to play little bit more. Ammo efficiency is one thing this weapon needs most.
What do you think about MG Ia?
Or las pistol?
Or shred pistol?
Or sapper shovel?
Lets give some love to garbage weapons - I like that you buffed headhunters, that guns are now actually pretty good. Lets keep up the good work of making bad weapons worth running.
Edit * changed “gunner” to “shooter” to be more clear
Absolutely.
MG XII has everything good and no defaults… there’s a problem here.
Totally agree.
Burst fire for MG Ia and or auto or bust fire for MG IV
I won’t say that I would not love a buff of several weapons…
I stated it several times.
MG Ia need more ammo
Both lasgun rifles need an alternate fire rate, burst or full auto (perso i would say burst for MG Ia and full auto for MG IV but with a bullet per bullet mode when aiming
laspistol would love that they get buffed at close range and that damages decrease at long range
shotgun would say they need x3 ammos
revolver needs more ammo and a slight increase of damages
infantry gun: need at least same amount of ammo than brauto
shredded autopistol: more ammos needed. no need to buff damages
I think that fast firing burst on Ia would make damage output more viable but I still feel some form of armour penetration would be fitting since it is standard issue lasgun and hell them shootyboys have no recoil at all. if the cost of the burst was 3 rounds as it is it would basically resolve the issue either it would tripple effective damage output potential and would make it sit nicely in between MG XII and IV since it has lowest maximum ammo pool of them all.
There’s nothing wrong with the shovel, I consistently clear damnation with it. Only reason it looks weak is because the power sword is OP and needs nerfing. The heavies have the same attack pattern but PS cleaves way too well for a straight horizontal.
You are actually right. But I would say that heavy attack has no use at all. Shovel would be fine in my mind if it had blessing that restored toughness on chained hit, it would make it stand out, since vet does not have any other defensive weapon.
I am not saying you are wrong. I just have a different view.
I’m no Steve Jobs, but maybe you’re holding it wrong
I find the heavy attack is great for horde clear, as you get all weakspot hits, try to roll a cleave blessing from the casino.
And restore toughness is not a shovel blessing because it’s a mobility weapon, it’d be akin to put restore toughness on combat knife, you simply have too much dodge to lose toughness.
If you’re consistently losing toughness with a shovel, then you’re definitely not dodging enough!
Sorry if it comes out harsh, this is how I view the shovel, and it works for me!
Nah.
It has such awful mobility and is so risky to use under high pressure, that it is actually pretty balanced.
Since the PS got nerft a while ago, many veteran players have been using different weapons than the PS.
I think if the crafting system didn’t suck and actually allowed us to use the items we want, many more people would drop their PS for a different weapon.
It is just that many other weapons are more reliant on specific perks and blessings in order to function well.
I disagree, you still get 4 dodges (vs 6 on a high mob shovel) if you have a mobility stat over 70% (I believe) on the PS, otherwise you get 3 which I agree is low.
But even then it still does more damage than the shovel without powering up, on both light and heavy AND against armor, while also having higher stagger. So it’s still simply a better pick when both have the same attack pattern.
When powered up though, it goes into ridiculous OP territory.
The shovel is fairly balanced, the power sword is dumb, there’s no way you’ll change my mind on this topic
I think a few weapons could use more carapace damage, because not being able to effectively melee crushers is just dumb, with nothing really making up for it (ogryn knives stagger crusher harder than club/shovel atm, its the others that are whack). They really need to make melee combat great again, standing back and blasting everything to death with guns (and staggering them like an Ogryn) is just so easy and boring. At least take the gratuitous ammo pick ups away.
Shovel is fun, and a good benchmark weapon for actually doing what it says on the tin. It do control the crowd, it do be versatile.
Ammo Efficiency (uses displayed damage value, so this isn’t 100% accurate against every target type):
Basically I’d love to see them improve basically all the weapons on the low end of the spectrum, because really wasteful ammo-inefficient guns are pretty bad for teamplay. Weapons designed to be shot at numerous targets should probably get more ammo than normal.
Assumptions/Issues with this chart:
Chart wasn’t updated much after last patch, so Ripper Gun and maybe Headhunter values are probably wrong (ie using older data)
Grenade Gauntlet and Kickback are missing, as are several (2?) Ripper Gun variants
Helbores use only charged shots
Flamer left out intentionally since most of its actual damage is burn related
Changes I’d like to see:
Kantraels should probably be grouped together, near 55k ammo efficiency. (So a buff to Ia, and reduction to IV and XII.)
Heavy Laspitol needs much better ammo, but also needs better base DPS. It can remain fairly low DPS (it is a pistol), it just needs to not be last by such a big margin.
Stubb + Shotgun also need ammo
Infantry autoguns should probably be clumped with the Kantraels near 55k ammo efficiency, because these weapons tend to just miss shots more. (That’s why Stubber isn’t out of control where it is: because it’s designed to miss a lot of shots.)
Autopistol needs ammo, and probably could use a slight buff against other things, but honestly it’s in pretty good shape. The dramatically worse popularity doesn’t match the slightly worse erformance of the weapon.
Sapper Shovel can be fixed by balancing the Power Sword. (Only partly a joke. I haven’t actually got a good Sapper Shovel to really give it a test on high-end content, but certain PSword is the main thing overshadowing all Sharpshooter melee balance currently.)
@Flawless@joaquox TBH I feel like people overstate power sword’s mobility issues. I think you get 4 dodges at 50%+ mobility stat and they feel more than serviceable to me with dodge slides. TBH it’s not even a terrible sword when unpowered against hordes. I need a bit more experience with it to really gauge it properly but used an ~250 stat power sword with tier 1 slaughterer to level through most of the 20s in Heresy and it felt ultra competent despite being such a mediocre roll.
My biggest question about it currently is why the hell did they decide to give it access to slaughterer? That really pushes its output way too far for me liking. I can’t even imagine what a slaughterer 4 decent stat power sword would do to most things. Kinda terrifying.
I’m pretty sure the breakpoint for dodge 4 is closer to 70% than 50%, but yeah like I said it outperforms even when not powered up. And that is with more or less any blessing.
