Wait, Havoc doesn’t have this? How did I not notice.
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have you played ogryn?
I have not. Ogryn really gets the shaft when it comes to Havoc. Frankly, I think the folks who designed it either hate the big lads or else never play them. Bunch of Psyker Mains or something.
…No. That is not what toughness gating is.
@Frish
Toughness gating is when your toughness is broken, you take dramatically reduced damage for the next second, on a hidden cooldown dependent on difficulty. What they refer to as a toughness grace period in the modifiers.
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Ah, so that’s what that is.
That’s the grace period, not toughness gating
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I don’t see a meaningful distinction here. Changing how much ammo you get, how much damage enemies do, how much HP enemies have, stagger thresholds, and just about all of the hidden, incremental modifiers directly work against engrained knowledge. And I think that’s the point. Knowing is half the battle, and between these modifiers and the randomized conditions (we only have 4 right now but know more are coming), Havoc is trying to keep players on their toes.
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Eh, it’s subjective. Imo players expecting there to be at least SOME ammo pickups throughout a mission is more “core” than the exact amount of ammo awarded per pickup. Either way, the point is that modifiers that alter game mechanics help keep things interesting – or at least, many people think so.
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The distinction is one is an expected behaviour and one is an expected variable.
Same result but with less confusion. So why choose the confusing one?
Cataclysm has a much better ramp up of the difficulty imo. The extra HP is obvious, but they also affect the wave delay of specials and there’s more special slots. And the most intimidating change vs legend is the horde system - cata hordes make 2 main enemy groups to attack, one situated in front of the heroes and one behind. And unlike Legend elites generate when hordes do, and form the vanguard of those waves.
Darktide attempted this with putting elites in hordes into the hi intensity modes but I think they should have utilized mechanics like this. In general I mean because Havoc will be dead in a month…
Make the poxwalker/groaner encampments (code for ambient mob) thing more regular too, because speedrunners could use actual bollards. Situate them on corridors and staircases…I’d love to see those knive guys get slammed into a wall when already outrunning a mob.
Your response doesn’t make sense. Please rephrase?
This would be extremely fun if they came up with new chaotic modifiers. I was hoping that’s what Havoc would be, and instead they just went with the “make numerical changes” route of difficulty. The only new somewhat interesting modifier is the one where enemies explode into goo on death, and even that ends up just making beacon a required pick because of the HP decrease players get. Very unfortunate
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I’ve only ever seen people use the term in reference to the ranged damage reduction, though this is the issue with Fatshark refusing to actually give out info of any kind but then spin around and use terms in patch notes like they have some sort of glossary or tooltips in game.
Edit: Similarly, this is the first time I can recall anyone referring to it as the grace period. I do recall seeing gating used occasionally in reference to the full melee block though, now I think about it.
Fatshark y u no consistent.
That’s a better, more civil, explanation than what I’ve been given.
It’s a fair point, assuredly. Messing with muscle memory can be difficult for some. When I think of how I’ve been interacting with this alteration, I consider what I’ve been doing:
I’ve been hyper vigilant against shooters, jumping from cover to cover. Usually I have around 20 seconds in combat where I’m not benefitting from my bubble shield. So I’m that case I’m either lmb spamming my purgatus staff to make sure that they’re supposed and won’t shoot.
While doing this, I’m walking up to them so I can whip out my sword and start cutting them up. When you switch to sword on them they will also switch to melee. I’ve been caught off guard a few times where they have covering fire by gunners in the back. If that’s the case, I start block with deflector and start back dodging. There may be no toughness gate, but they still aren’t periling my shields instantly, surprisingly enough.
I’ve gotten really good at reflexively adapting to being shot at. Dodge, raider shield if our of range or start puffing them with fire. If surrounded, throw bubble shield. On top of all this, my team is constantly calling out what they’re doing, calling out their contacts. Doing this, we have little issues. Granted, we’ve only progressed together up to thirty two on a buddy missions. I’m also playing from us west on a European server as that’s where most of the team is. My ping ~300ms usually, and I have 83 toughness. So you can imagine my confusion when people say that they struggle with this mechanic.
Back to your point… The whole point is an increased difficulty, right? So, I would hope that a new modifier that challenges you to get out of your autopilot would be messy.
Your thoughts?
nah bro ur good, i jus read a weird interaction
OK, just making sure I’m understanding – I think Jakal is right…
The only other reference to roughness gating on this forum:
Some random reddit post talking about gating: Reddit - Dive into anything
… were the only references I could easily find to “toughness gating” with a quick search. FWIW Copilot also agrees.
This mechanic is toughness grace period, not toughness gating as far as I can tell!
Sorry for the fuss peeps, it was late and I was too tired to research when I initially asked 
Which anyway leads me to my next question, how does Havoc affect toughness gating?
So, the grace period is removed relatively early on, I know that: Steam Community :: Guide :: Havoc Modifiers
- Toughness Grace is removed: On damnation it is 50% damage reduction every 8 seconds upon toughness break [lasts 1.5s]
((This is actually an incredible DR boost that I never realised existed holy crap))
Besides this and significantly lowered toughness/replenishment, is there another factor that specifically alters the toughness gating mechanic?
havok doesn’t seem to affect gating, but the grace perios gets removed so gunners absolutely blow you to meat slurry if you don’t get to cover.
It is what it is, the grace period/ranged damage reduction is what I’m referring to.
It’s not on you that the toughness gating is a community term and the grace period is a term Fatshark coined out of the blue. It’s no surprise there’s mix ups.
Without digging through every discussion who knows. In retrospect I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it used for both. The grace period is closer to what a traditional health/shield gate is, a mechanic designed to prevent burst damage you can’t respond to, versus the melee blocked damage being just split damage after 100% shield.
Regardless 
Yeah I’ll be totally honest, I’ve not had much consistent trouble with the new gunners. I’ve just been playing the way I always play which is a ninja Ogryn. I literally never stop dodging or sliding. Even each swing of my pickaxe has a dodge incorporated into it to lengthen the swing of the attack. Due to all this sliding I don’t get hit much from gunners because I treat them as priority and take them out asap. There have been instances where it was unavoidable (using an auspex etc) where it was very noticeable and admittedly felt unfair though. And I agree with other people’s comments that constant sliding shouldn’t be a requirement for survival.
What I would do to add challenge is create a series of colour coded Nurgle buffs that can be applied to any enemy except bosses/monstrosities/DH.
E.g.
green - 1x hp, 1x dmg (spawn max 1 in every 10)
Purple - 2x hp, 2x dmg (spawn max 1 in every 50)
Yellow - 4x hp, 4x dmg, 2x speed (spawn max 1 in every 100).
This is just an example I’m plucking from the air but if there were colour coded buffs then that essentially triples the amount of enemy types, gives some randomness and random challenge based on which enemy was blessed with whichever colour. Despite all this randomness the player would instantly know what they’re dealing with because they would understand the buff and how it affects that enemy.
If you see a yellow buff crusher then it’s crap your pants time lol.
It would add urgency and allow a new sense of prioritising certain enemies.
Amount of spawns per buff could alter at higher difficulties but it’s the colour of buff which is all the player needs to see to know what they’re dealing with.
The different colours could give different buff effects…the above is just an example. As long as the buffs always remained consistent with their colour then any spawn variables etc could be adjusted freely.
What i like about the toughness gating is that it changes how you as a player act in any given situation. Regardless of what enemy you fight. Instead of just changing enemy behavior and attributes, they changed us as well. If toughness gating didnt change, then people would handle every enemy the same way. Health and damage modifiers would not mean anything since that gate exists. If changes were only made to enemies, there would be nothing about our playstyle that would change except shoot more bullets. Builds would center around those which are most damage efficient, smite would be just as broken as it was before. Psykers would become even more valued because of their ammo efficiency.
I think the modifiers and debuffs they’ve given us are a healthy mix of both. I now always avoid open areas and scan walls for places to hide, and always break line of sight on shooters. When I’m sliding or dodging, it’s to get beyond cover.
Looking back, i can see how one might accuse me of thinking fs can do no wrong. Maybe they can, they just haven’t done something that would p*** me off yet.
Maybe there is something wrong with me? Or maybe i just dislike things about darktide to a far lesser degree than others. Im a moderate i guess. Or just laid back? Here to have a good time? I guess theres just more important things to be upset about. If FS does something bad ill play something else. Hell, i dont f****** know.
Edit. You forgot blue and red. Lets get all the chaos in here.