seems everyone is talking about the new “feel” of combat and the incresed difficulty of the game. This has led to a ton of discussions. Sure , a lot has changed but does a discussion about the feel of combat even make sense at this point ?
I think its impossible to judge if the new combat is either good or bad beacause of the massive load of bugs implemented since 2.0. The overall feel of the game suffers from:
Enemys spawning in weird locations and moving through walls or props
No , or very delayed warning sounds
No move or Idle sounds of Beastmen
Weird elite spawns with instant Leeches , instant Hunters and Hookrats with a 10 meter pole
Buggy enemy Attack tracking and range
Talents not working
Hits and Projectiles of Players not registering
Accidental Weapon and Ability Nerfs
Enemys stacking into each other in large ammounts
Stagger , Cleave , Pushes not being registered or added correctly
And many many more … the actual list of Bugs over in the Bug reports section of this forum is getting ridiculous.
So im wondering … how do you judge the new combat if not a single gameplay mechanic in this game is working as intended ? Is this even a discussion about the new combat and difficulty or is this a discussion about bugs ? it’s the latter if you ask me …
Of course you can raise concerns ~ But there is not a single interaction between player and enemy that is not bugged in some way.
Let me try to bring up an example. Dodging ~ So we all noticed that the time window for effective dodging got smaller and it also has been part of the patch notes. So thats quite an obvious thing but can you really judge how it is working when the enemy tracking is doing weird stuff on top of that ? Like savages jump teleport through props and walls to track you. If normal trash mobs are iceskating towards you (also through objects) while doing weird bugged stab animations. If dodges within the right time window will simply not work dodging a leech for example (you can actually see the projectile missing players by far and still applying). This also applies to many other situations in the game so i do not think that players just judge the overall changes in dodging time windows … they judge the package and the feel and its obviously bugged as hell.
And dodging is just one combat mechanic. Staggers do also not work as intended , staggers not applying correctly , weapon hits and projectiles not registering , pushes do not , push attacks do not , cleaves do not. There is no way to tell if the stagger focused combat is a good thing if it simply does not work at the moment. How do i testdrive a car with 1 or 2 wheels missing ?
The wheels aren’t missing, they’re unbalanced and therefore the car fails the test.
The same is true for the game, regardless of what is broken or not the current situation of combat earns failure mark and shouldn’t have gone to live. However it did under promise and guise of beta participation for WoM pre-orders and was forced upon those who didn’t without any compensation to boot.
It is irrelevant for me as a customer as to what is exactly broken in your car you try to sell. Though it’s not correct allegory. What you’re selling me is service of tuning up my car and if it actually runs worse after you put in new racing shocks, left few screwed loose, forgot to balance tires and change oil.
Regarding dodge - there’s sick a$$ combo.
First - slide/skate enemies do
Second - target switch during attack animation
Third - wierd terrain pathing
Forth - close “waiting pool” and long range attacks
Result is
plague monks sliding backward when they attack. (as i understand what happens, is they target one hero and start their attack sequence, and right after switch their target to the hero behind them)
instant retrack during combat. Two of heroes attack CW from same spot. CW starts attack. Both of heroes dodge to the right. CW started attack on hero A and during dodge (and during attack animation) switched to the hero B. Now, cause system thinks that dodge was initiated too early by hero B it turns and hit both.
as you fight beastman horde you most likely will be hit by spearmen at least once. There like 8 enemies in actual melee. And N in the waiting pool. As you kill one in melee, next from waiting pool will be assigned to his slot. And cause most likely you move during fight (step and dodge left-right) that enemy from waiting pool will launch running attack. Spearman will slide in the place for 0.2sec and thrust spear from waiting pull to your knee. And adventure is over, cause you are slowed and stunned.
But this is pointing towards bugs (in addition to bad handling of a beta and beta feedback) and not a bad theory in design if i understood correctly. Thats actually what im trying to say here.
I’m not against stagger mechanic as a concept, I’m against it’s execution, which is what is more important. And if you can’t do execution properly, you shouldn’t do it at all.
The missing audio cues and specials spawns directly on top of the player are infuriating. These two items have reduced my enjoyment of this game by a pretty gross amount.
Had a silent patrol, a silent horde, endless horde music, silent specials, enemy fabrications out of thin air, as well as drifting and phantom hits in the one game I did tonight for the specific purpose of catching footage. Once I slice this 2 hour session up I’ll happily share with you all kinds of garbage that’s back that we thought was gone when they snuffed it out of the BBB
Nopez it’s not the bugs. Me and my friend were doing effectively a 2 man run (we had 2 players who basically did nothing but waste healing supplies or were just dead modt of the time) and it was all going smooth till we encountered beastmen. A hyperdens stream of them washed over us and finished the job in about 10s. And damn, if there was a banner boi around, even a proper 4 man team would have some serious problems.
Generally the game feels just right on legend, until beastmen come - they are manageable, but add some risk factors (boss, low HP, dead players, patrol, anything) and a wipe is a very common result.
Yes, I’m trying to git gud, but it seems quite clear, beastmen horde is the source of a v. v. Large number of failed runs.
I disagree. The beast men are indeed harder for a number of reasons but the bugs are more visible when its easier. You can survive them because they aren’t wipe material but with a beast man horde they are. The bugs are most definitely there. I’m sick of being one shot through shields with full health, having chaos warriors 180 aggro swap from another player and down us both or having 10 plus units spawn on top of me or an ally. They just appear and drop a foot attacking almost instantly.
When its not a crap shoot its obvious and survivable.
Actually I consider Chaos Warriors marvellously easy to kill nowadays. Also I’m not experiencing hits through block other than typical “hit through block” that were always there anyway (and they work as intended) - maybe now shield should block 100% of troll’s axe strike if so - OK, haven’t tried to shield block that yet.
Righteous Stand bug is bad, Slayer ult bug is bad, Sienna ult, I think there is also “bomb does next to nothing” bug, but that’s really it and it’s not like the game was bugless pre patch.
IMO bugs have next to no impact on my gameplay, but beastmen? It’s all good and then all of the sudden blammo, wipe.
So you don’t experience ‘silent’ mobs, hyper density, invisible mobs, within site spawns of all types, damage through shields, unusual mob attack tracking changes, skating mobs of all kinds ?
I mean, are we even playing the same game.
I had thought that I was missing something, simply not being a shield player which I still admit is a possibility perhaps even likely but the rest?
Gotta agree with you. I don’t mind the changed combat (Beastmen balance issues aside) when the game WORKS as intended, but too often it just doesn’t.
So many frustrating situations happen because the game behaves inconsistently or straight up unfair, and it wasn’t this bad in the June Beta or on 1.6… so what happened here?
I’ve spent 800 hours on this game since release and the last time it felt this bugged was after release.
Silent? What do you mean? When there is a few dozen enemies I don’t listen to their individual sounds, but specials indeed make sounds but they can be lost in the noise.
Hyperdensity is not a bug and it was here since like forever.
Within site spawns? They were always there, nihil novi.
Damage through shields - I hate shields, don’t use them anyway, but back in the day slam attacks dealt dmg through but it was as intended.
Tracking etc.?
I don’t usually get hit by rats. I don’t usually get hit by chaos. Unless I mess up I can deal with hordes, .patrols, bosses. I get hit by beastmen. A lot.
So I guess beastmen are the issue, and not “bugs”.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who is looting at Tod Howard up there and thinking… did I buy the wrong version.
I think you’ve gotten lucky, I didnt get a lot of the 1.6 bugs most people were complaining about and had a very smooth experience during that but this feels like back when I first picked up teh game and stuff just happened.
I cant even get a game as the charecter I’ve selected right now it keeps logging me into an existing game as Battle Wizard.