To add to the mix: The small silver TDR nodes and I Shall Not Fall (Martyrdom TDR) are all additive with each other, after which that total and any other TDR talents combine multiplicatively.
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Whaat really? I didn’t know that! Thanks for bringing it up! 
That definitely changes my views on the little passive nodes!
Edit: Just wanted to get back to this. 
Unless I made a mistake, and if that’s true (I assume it is!), these are about the max TDR values you can get (not counting potential buffs from teammates):
Normally I’d never go 3 wound curios with Martyrdom but jesus… you’d basically have ~80% constant TDR! And conditionally almost 94%! I will absolutely try this on some build tomorrow. Either way, with how the passives can easily be worth twice or more their value on high TDR levels, I’m seriously going to have to reconsider many of my builds.
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Try to avoid barrels and pox bursters (and leaky flamers) 
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You should try the enhanced description mod. It gives you a lot of indications that change a lot how you will pick talents.
This was the best things I did. The author has a deep knowledge of the mechanics of the game.
Ok, tested it intensely. This is outrageous good. This is even too good on a toughness build. And I have fallen in love of toughness builds.
Thanks for enlightening this. This has definitively changed my builds.
Fury rising is still great, but more for weapons that has low critical rate or are slow.
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I have it! Just took it like idk a month ago or so, but never spotted that about the passives. Now I wonder if other passives have the same effect, like say the 5% peril reduction on psykers? Anyway the mod hasn’t been updated since U&L and the talent changes. 
He mentioned when the bonus is additive and when it is multiplicative.
I don’t doubt you! I mean I probably never even really looked at the passive descriptions after getting the mod. I was too focused on all the other stuff. 
Feels to me as though there is a LOT of insight captured in here!
Thank you everyone, again.
It has drifted somewhat with new revelations though, maybe?
Is it worth someone (more knowledgeable than I!) combing through this and putting a bit of a summary guide? 
e.g. talents that stack additively
e.g. what does a “Toughness” build look like, and why would you want to use it?
e.g. why bolter could be > than the revolver
e.g. why you’d want infinite dodges on a zealot to create a dodge build. What level is that appropriate at (because in my mind, unless you’re in aurics, you’ve probably enough dodges anyway. So why do we want to trigger dodge bonuses, best way to do that, and do you need a blessing - aka Agile - to help?)
e.g. Actually: levels 30-100, if you’re playing in anything on the regular board, then this build is good. But to transition to Auric 5 and Maelstrom, you need to start thinking about this…
I’ve an instinct who I think would be ideal to take it on, but … 
You want to use a toughness build if you’re confident in your skills.
A toughness build means close to no damage if you manage well your toughness. But when you’re hurt, it hurts really bad.
As an example, my current build I can go up to 97% TDR (I could get the 100%, but it would remove 3 talents I want). However, I get to this, if I succeeded to dodge, and when under Stalwart.
As a result, I have, on my zealot, 200 HP and not more. I have (if I remember well ) 194 toughness. It means that I can be hit by a sniper and have no damage on health (experimented it yesterday).
It means also that my low health make me not wasting medikits and that a health stimm can restore me to full health most of the time.
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Duellist and crit builds. You basically have 100% uptime on 50% extra weak point and crit damage. If you add a blessing like agile, which effectively gives you infinite dodges, you can see why doing this makes sense.
triple toughness curio, double charge for quick 50% regen. crit and crit cdr if you want to be cookie cutter. the usual DR nodes. If you know your zealot movements are confident with dodges you basically take no damage. Add holy revenant & until death to the mix and you’re basically idiot/death proof.
Add knives to the mix and your secondar/range weapon becomes irrelevant.
If you’re using knives basically any weapon is free to go, as they have infinite supply and allow you to snipe anything. No need to switch weapons, and can be used to snipe whilst dealing with elites/hordes in melee.
In the hand of a competent user knives are the strongest blitz in the entire game. You just need to land your shots. It’s the ultimate 1 tap special killer.
With that out of the way bolter becomes very usueful for boss dps or “this entire wall of armor must go” moments. Helps to generate space for swamped allies as well.
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Dodge talents on a zealot:
- Second wind - Restore 15% toughness on dodge
- Good balance: 25% damage reduction (not TDR, Damage reduction so health and toughness)
- Duellist - +50% weakspot & critical hit damage for 3s
- Dance of death: -75 spread and -50% recoil for 3 s on successful dodge (less interesting, except if you use an autogun)
Let’s not forget Inebriate’s Poise that gives you 3 momentum stack for inexorable judgment.
But for me, a dodge build is a critical build. Not an inexorable judgment.
Forgot something important, the blessings
With DS, by example, you have riposte. Same with dagger.
With DS and tactical axe, you have agile.
Means that the natural weapon, should be the DS (cause you can put AND agile AND riposte) or dagger with precognition as this blessing will increase critical damages on successful dodge.
This doesn’t mean tactical axe are not interesting. But they are less interesting.
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Not worth it tbh. Zealot has very little build variation until you get to bottom point. I consider chorus an absolute waste of a skill. Since killing > CC on zealot. And invis is just for speedrun trolling and f-ing around, or clutching the mess you’ve helped caused.
And then it’s just a matter of perseonal preference if you want piety or judgement. The martyrdom alternative is a noob trap for aspiring hammer users.
Martyrdom shines with weapons like axe and DS, due to the massive damage and attackspeed buff it gives, but relies you to be able to function with low hp, looping back to the toughness build a bit.
That’s true. Martyrdom sound interesting, but it is, in my opinion, the less interesting way to play the zealot.
I must say that inexorable judgment can be very good.
But I have to admit that the most efficient builds I have are all critical orientated.
ta - I wasn’t saying I didn’t know, just that it’s worth capturing the “why” in a build guide rather than just the “what”.
But still - great additions again. Thank you.
Yeah if you’re prone to taking chip health damage, you will go down in the most critical phases. Personally when I use a Martyrdom Rashad/DS4 build I generally go through a match without needing to heal, since you’ve got extreme levels of TDR. But it’s also not much of a difference to other builds. The only thing standing out, is that a martyrdom build allows you to be way way way more aggressive, which also leads to more f-ing up.
Same
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75 posts though. I’ve learned some new ideas and this wasn’t really even meant for me! 
If there’s a clear build that is a one-stop-shop, then that’s perfect for a new players guide. But people should know the “why”, rather than just the “what”. I suspect many players get to later stages and find they’re struggling; the reason being they’ve copied a build but don’t understand what they need to do to maximise it.
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Honestly there’s more than enough build guides. And I’m personally against them because of that very reason. People can’t even be bothered to spend 2 minutes reading skill descriptions or testing things in the psykanium. They simply copy a build without regards to the how and why. Then they fail to make it work, keep yapping about buffs and nerfs without a real clue, leading to the atrocious balance we currently have.
Working things out is half the fun. Not to mention overcoming a challenge.
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That’s the problem… the monkeys that follow what is said to them and never test by themselves. And they will repeat to others, like if it was the truth, what they have read on the net.
You should test and determinate what you want as build.
By example, dodge build was not natural for me. Before intensively playing that, I was “dodging”, but I had not learnt to really dodge to proc talents. In fact, if you kill the enemy that try to hit you, before the attack, dodge talents don’t proc…
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But… ?
The whole point of a guide is to distill group-learned knowledge in to something that helps guide someone new, saving them the thousands of hours of experience that’s gone in to these threads.
It’s no difference from any where else in life or science. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel to prove it will roll for you. Someone shows you it can roll, then how to fit an axle, and all you need to know thereafter is how to push it. Knowing the physics first principles is likely useful, but not everyone needs to know that.
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I guess this is the proverb
“Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. ”
If you give them builds, they don’t learn. Cause they usually don’t want to involve themselves in the learning curve. They just want something that works.
Yes it will work, but, as an example, my achlys build is critical orientated (like more than 75% of my builds).
But this build relies on heavy swings… you don’t really dodge with it. You can go backward, to charge the heavy and then kill the 5 groaners in front of you, most of the time, I push them and chain a push attack and then an heavy one…
I don’t play with the achlys like I play with my DS build (that I called invincibility is possible )
I could write something however… but I am not sure to have tested yet enough combinations to judge everything.
By example, I started to use beacon of purity, with gunsligger and unremitting. That’s great, but I am far from the end of the tests (yes I renew my pleasure in DT by testing new things).