Is knife overpowered

A lot of weapons need a very specific build and blessings to be the most effective at killing armored targets. For example, many people say the Thunder Hammer NEEDS thrust and headtaker to do the Imagine Dragons song correctly. The Thunder Hammer is an easy example, but something like the Eviscerator needs Rampage or Shred to do the best DPS possible. It’s a 1/4 chance to get one of those blessings, 1/8 chance to get the specific one you want. I can keep going but basically what I’m trying to say is to get the best weapon for a build, you can spend a ton of time and effort gathering all of the resources you can - only to come home to Hadron, who is going to be cucking you with 5 Terrifying Barrages in your living room.

Meanwhile the knife has 10 blessings total, about 6 of them are amazing and interchangable unlike other weapons, so you have a much better chance of getting blessings that will work with your build. 2 of the knife’s blessings do rending(uncanny strike is the best), 2 of them do bleeding, so you can destroy armored targets all day as well as every other enemy in the game. In my opinion the knife with these blessings is overall more useful than a Thunder Hammer or Eviscerator. Of course, the hammer is better at doing a lot of damage (specifically to monstrosities) in 1 hit, but the knife is better when there’s more than 1 enemy. Since you can hit a couple crits then dodge the crushers while leaving them bleeding, as opposed to someone with a thunder hammer killing a crusher in 2 hits while needing prep time and high skill to avoid being punished by their own charged attack.

The builds in particular I feel makes the knife way better than a Thunder Hammer and other weapons made for armored targets are the blessings flesh tearer and riposte, uncanny strike and riposte, uncanny strike and flesh tearer, or lacerate and uncanny strike. Riposte and flesh tearer are my favorite, they work great for crushers, but also make the knife great at horde-clear with all of the crits instakilling the poxwalkers, with the bleed killing all of the ones that didn’t die instantly. Even though I’ve just been going off about how the knife is so good at killing crushers, the knife absolutely destroys every other enemy in the game so easily and efficiently I don’t feel like it needs to be discussed.

This is the part I feel is the most overpowered and makes most other melee weapons feel significantly worse to me. With the knife’s mobility you can dodge all ranged attacks. Even in a room full of gunners you can get to safety easily or just run up to the ranged enemies and stop them from shooting. With the knife it’s possible to fight a Daemonhost while being shot at and win from the sheer amount of dodges and crazy mobility. It’s at the point where as veteran and zealot with a knife, I use my ranged weapon sparingly because it’s more efficient to just run up to the enemies and save my ammo for the harder situations like groups of gunners. Like when 5 bulwarks and 30 shotgunners show up I’m not pushed to the edge, I just feel bad for them because they basically have no chance of hitting me. Even not watching my dodges and having -3/5 dodges, the dodge distance is still farther than a power sword. With the knife you basically have 8 dodges before you really should refresh. Plus the way dodging in this game works, you can dodge 1 centimeter into a wall and a crusher will miss his overhead aimed at you.

I think the main issue is that the knife has no weaknesses except for crowd control, but they just kill the crowd so it’s like whatever. I feel if everyone on my team had a knife and a revolver, we could just breeze through auric maelstrom like it was malice. That probably isn’t good for the game considering a knife is outperforming melee weapons dedicated to eliminating armored targets while at the same time being better at everything else due to the insane speed and damage. It’s like the knife has S+ stats in everything except crowd control. Obviously, the plasma gun and bolter are way safer and better at getting through armor but I’m really only talking about melee weapons.

The only other weapons I would say are on the level of the knife are the dueling swords and the force swords (not the obscurus). The Mk XV Eviscerator comes in as an honorable mention - but is not as good as the other weapons as the mobility isn’t as good.

I even tried the tactical axes with shred, and the weakspot critical hit on a crusher with a tac-axe does the same amount of damage as a knife non-critical weakspot hit without uncanny strike. Yes, you can use a combat axe but two knife hits; a heavy and a light thrust, come out at the same speed as an axe heavy while doing the same amount of damage and also having a higher change to crit. So it’s like the axe is a direct downgrade from the knife.

The knife has access to some of the best blessings in the game, while only having 4 less-useful ones whereas most other weapons really only have a few good blessings. Hadron is more likely not to completely brick your knife like she would brick a Thunder Hammer. It kills all elites and specials in 1 or 2 hits besides the ogryns, can still utterly destroy them of course just not as effortlessly. Also you have a bunch of extremely far reaching and fast dodges, and mobility you can use to run around a room full of gunners as well as across the map to save yourself or your teammates. Plus you can kill monstrosities on damnation by yourself in like 30 seconds. So yeah idk, I don’t want to see the day the knife is nerfed but I don’t see any other option as Fatshark probably won’t buff all the other weapons to be as good. Probably the most busted part about the knife is the mobility, but I don’t want that to be changed of course.

Yeah but the evis and hammer feel good to use while I don’t really like knife’s move set.
I prefer the devil claw to it even if I know it’s worse.

And that should not be…

Try to discover also by yourself…

Like all others weapons…

Well to say it short… I played intensively dagger these days… I played the III, the new dagger, on zealot, on veteran, with critic template, without…
I cannot get, at any time with any combination, same DPS than what I can get with a combat axe, a power sword and a lot of other weapons (especially evis, but definitively not the TH).
Dagger is really fun… I tend to play it on the vet with smoke grenades and voice of command. I pick also specialist (only first node) and agile engagement and stuff around melee in the bottom tree.
On zealot, critic build work very well… but I tend to prefer the one the rely on raking fire (+40% blessing +20% from embuscade talent) and with the keystone inexorable judgment… here this is really great. And if I find a blue boost, that’s so great.
But, if I want to get the highest DPS and the highest survival, I don’t go for a dagger. An evis, a combat axe, even an heavy sword (VI or less better in my opinion the VII (more damages, slower… so stagger less)) is greater on a zealot.
A power sword is better on the veteran (and shovels are not bad also)… but also the combat axe.

What is great with the dagger is the fact you move fast. But it is far from the best weapon regarding DPS.

But about blessings… you should look by yourself the other blessings, and do not listen too much people. Not cause this is wrong what they say… no. Just cause they know WHY they say/advice that. And sometimes you can find better to use an other blessing than the meta ones.

Missed the part old dagger / new dagger.

I really like the new dagger that is really efficient against horde. But, this one is less efficient on backstab (the true backstab is the 2nd heavy hit).
But the III even if it is great on backstab, is really less efficient for anything else. But for a stealth zealot (long time not played that), the III is better than the new one.

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Short answer: No.

Long answer: The Knife has two things going for it. Single Target Killing Power and Movement. Nothing else. The new Combat Blade MK III gives a bit more reach and Horde clear at the cost of Single Target Killing Power.

They’re fast, but they make for poor clutching tools and often lead to you being overwhelmed or not being able to keep up with the onslaught of enemies you need to kill.

Knife is fine and in terms of general strength rather mid even.

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MK VI is the horde clear one.

Opposite. Daggers don’t really fall behind if you build for them correctly, and are the BEST clutching tools in the game. They require some proactive movement to not get caught sometimes, but that’s it. The only melee that don’t require that are power swords, or anything zealot melee.

I’ll take a dagger over a power sword any day though.

On zealot in particular they’re busted since you can still have amazing horde clear while having insane movement speed.

Only thing it lacks outside of zealot who has the horde clear covered up through sheer massive attack speed is reach, and the ability to actually fight ragers without some sort of ability or consumable to knock them down first.

You could also just shoot them.

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Knives completely trivialize the game, the only reason it’s not readily apparent is because just like weapon stat bars, the average knife users IQ is hardcapped at 80.
In the hands of anyone who knows how the game works a combat knife lets you hardcarry and ensure victory in 100% of situations, even solo auric maelstroms without sweating too much. In the hands of bad players they cause wipes and a bad reputation as “the weapon that can’t kill anything and only stay alive”, which is a skill issue.

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knives are overall terrible weapons that tend to cause situations where you need to clutch, as they have terrible crowd management and demand a huge investment in target focus causing any knife player to be totally unaware of their team’s situation in exchange for single-target damage.

most of darktide’s playerbase have no skills with team awareness or crowd management anyway and focus everything on evasion and single target damage, so it’s a very popular weapon. that said, any mistakes in accuracy drops it’s functional damage into the toilet which is why they take forever to do anything.

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Pretty much this.

If anyone thinks dagger is bad it’s a skill issue. That’s fine if you haven’t played with it much, and if you think it’s underpowered.

Just means FS will leave it alone for longer.

You can evade enemies with like everything in the game but the slab shield. This is where the knife is totally overrated by the midwit skill level. If you run into situations where you actually think ‘man if only I had the knife for this’ you are totally below the practice of where you should be. Actually surviving in the game is using the tools to survive every encounter without effort, and the knife is moving all of those tools into dodging and having the space to dodge. That’s exactly why it still manages to be balanced, because it has to be compared to the weapons that can still hold a closet doorway the size of a bulwark against any number of those incoming enemies.

Living and dying by mistakes is totally a thing that can exist in Darktide, and the knife is still edging on the side of being more forgiving like most of the game. But because its horde damage is the worst in the game (even on Zealot seriously several +power boosts will not make 33 2nd cleave target damage and 3 target hits total impressive, and the vanguard heavies Mk6 has are as slow as sword swings for only 4 targets hit instead of 7-8), its stagger power is non existent and it has no stamina its fine.

Its more that outside of 1 dueling sword and maybe combat axes the equivalent high mobility weapons are terrible. Seriously, the state of tactical axes.

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Thank you. Most sane knife take I’ve seen.

Now my issue with it is probably my brain still being locked too much in VT2 mode but if I’m playing a melee centric class I want to be able to actually “frontline” for my team properly and that is literally impossible with knife. You’ll kill a lot but your ability to create or even hold space for your team is basically non existent.

Sure if you’re very very good you can technically solo with it better than you could with most weapons, but going into a team mission with the pre-established goal of playing the map like it’s a true solo is not a very smart or healthy way to play the video game frankly.

I really think knife is fine and will fall out of vogue with time. I don’t even see it much these days.

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People can make all the theorycraft claims they want about dagger being the worst at X, or how it has awful horde clear (it really really doesn’t especially on zealot).

Doesn’t change the fact that every big challenge that could be cleared has been cleared with a dagger.

These include true melee, true solo 2/3 I’ve seen were dagger, and one was IndiCrusher with telepots wielding it.

Solo Hardmode twins was MK III dagger.

No stealth was used for any of these btw. So you can’t make claims about it being bad for party play either with some weird cope logic about true solo power not translating to party play.

There’s all video evidence for this as well so you can make all the claims you want I don’t think those players were using dagger just because they thought it looked cool.

A 99% complete Auric Maelstrom D-III-VIII-IX-G failed also using dagger. This one is stealth though. You can make arguments about that one since AI doesn’t work in true solo with stealth. Regardless a dagger was chosen for this for a reason.


Even without it being a primary weapon it’s great for ranged builds for proactive repositioning, and kiting.

Yes, creating self imposed challenges that remove the rest of the game from the equation super pack those knife advantages because you removed the rest of your toolkit from the equation. Leaving it to excel on what it was already good at.

4 combat axes can clear hard mode twins in 5 minutes. A trauma staff psyker can solo scab only melee auric. What are these dumb goalposts if not arbitrary and self imposed. Totally irrelevant to the scheme of the game.

Which is mostly becoming a game of numbers and not falling behind having to survive against the entire game. There the combat knife is great at killing melee elites and moving around. That’s it.

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…self imposed challenges? Bro.

I’m either a god at this game (no), or dagger just happens to be the best melee weapon.

It consistently gets me top or at least 2nd lessers kills on my zealot while also top elites, and specials. It’s only “weakness” is that its middle of the pack for horde clear.

For boss killing its 2nd under thunderhammer, or 3rd if you are being ignored since the new evis is insane.

For vet its 2nd best boss killer unless you are the one being focused in which case its on par with power sword for pogryn, and better vs nurgle, and chaos spawn.

It absolutely murders all the specials as well slowest being mutant if you don’t build to one shot it (oh no 2 shot), and none other than hound can actually get away either because of its mobility.

You already mentioned it wrecks elites I’ll add its the best anti ranged elite weapon as well since you live inside of a room full of gunners with how mobile this thing is. You won’t even take damage.

In response to whatever parts of your post were aimed at what I said, and this last addendum, I am by no means saying knife is not good, or that it isn’t a valuable melee slot for reasons like what you said in the quoted section above. I just think it’s a bit… overhyped. I take it from what you’ve said that you’re also not advocating for a nerf?

I would be interested to watch them if you wouldn’t mind linking the runs you’re referring to. I don’t think those are necessarily indicative of normal gameplay, though I probably wouldn’t go so far dismissing them as @MarxistDictator has.

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You can with the new dagger.
However it is dangerous, when doing that as a veteran, as dagger relies on dodge. If you surrendered, you can die pretty fast as you cannot kill enough fast. That’s why I take voice of command, for this kind of situation.
As a zealot you can clearly give space to your team. Really not a problem.

But, tbh, this is one of the worst weapon to do that… this is not the role of this weapon.

I am advocating for some nerfs tbf. Same way I advocate for nerfs on my MK V even though I main that gun. I don’t think it needs backstab damage as an example, and it’s HS multi could go from 270 to like 230, or even 210. It needs tuning.

I’d have to ask permission to link the 99% failed run since it was linked on a discord with an unlisted one so I want to respect that player’s wishes to keep it mostly private, but like I said that was a stealth abuse one as skillful as it was. I can link a screencap of him being near the end of the mission if you’d like though.

EDIT:

This run as well. It’s incredibly impressive what they can take on with true melee, true duo.

You can make your arguments for when they’re forced to kite sometimes, but I can’t see even a MK XV evis faring well in some of the situations they managed to survive.

Maybe an indie crusher? …maybe, but it’s lack of boss damage is quite detrimental.

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Its not middle of the pack for horde clear. Its the worst in the game. Like find me a worse option for the humie careers. Even bleed doesn’t save it.

This is why its totally fine to dance around and dunk single targets. And yes, it is fun to put time into and feel quasi invincible. There’s a lot of that sentiment in the game right now that doesn’t make me want to zero in on the knife. Especially considering its paying in stagger power and control in the game that plays more like a traditional horde game than an actual vermintide follow up. Seriously that’s why they need to stack so many entities to provide challenge.

On veteran use MK III with riposte, and flesh tearer. 5% crit on the dagger other perk never matters. I prefer carapace since its the only thing it “struggles” on.

This is 30% crit if you happen to run reciprocity, and once you dodge which you will during a horde you will get up to 75% crit.

50% without reciprocity.

You can take out 2 poxwalkers per crit swing, and it swings fast.

For Zealot m1 spam with a MK 6. That’s it. Keep up FotF as you would any other build.

Actually try that, and you can see how good the clear is. On veteran it’s more than passable to keep you, or your team safe though honestly you should be just focusing on killing all the elites and specials.

On zealot it’s more than middle of the pack clear. It’s downright good.

On psyker you use it because you wanna be fast, and your trauma staff will kill everything. Though the pushstabs are nice to use on mutants.

EDIT: Forgot a word.

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I don’t get it, in what criteria is that fast. Bleed stacks to kill trash. The light attacks are literally cleave damage of 33 and 16. I don’t get the point of trying to say ‘well you can keep attacking and the numbers will go down’. Its the worst in the game.

Knife is a lot better than the other finesse weapons except Mk4 Saber. Because they all have pretty cratered single target damage, not access to bleed. They would be a lot better than the knife if their damage was too similar, since they stagger and clear numbers better, but the current margins are too far. That’s about as far as I would throw it. The knife is really great, but also way more rounded off in strengths than the other high performers.

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Bleeds are insane, and being able to know you are in a bad spot to be surrounded then just say “Nah” and go somewhere you can funnel enemies because of your insane movement speed more than makes up for its clear speed which is still around 70-80% as good as a Shovel MK VII. Yes really.

Those bleeds add up fast regardless of what the direct damage is. 2 per swing at the swing rate it has is really good. Stop looking at the numbers and actually try it. This isn’t a TTRPG despite how FS tries to design it. Field testing is important.

The only real downsides you can list off is its awful range, and lack of stagger which barely are an issue once you get used to them especially since you can dodge so insanely well.

Also weaving in pushes is basically free on zealot with how stamina cheap dagger is.