Is it just me or is hive scum infinite ammo + auto guns a bit ridiculous?

[JDLS]

I have seen some people saying that rampage is too good but like I have been consistently getting 1.5+ million damage auric maelstrom games by literally holding M1 and occasionally spamming dodge. Getting damage numbers comparable to old animation cancel flame psyker by holding M1 seems very over tuned. I mean it even kills crushers reasonably fast when combined with enhanced desperado, vultures mark, and pick your targets.

Having such a high crit chance and fire rate combined with vultures dodge and nimble and moving target means you are essentially immortal without even trying. I can just ignore enemy attacks while shooting and then spam overly effective dodges for the short reload, repeat until you wipe out an entire elite hoard.

Psyker of course still has a higher damage potential, I mean I have had plenty of 25-30 minute psyker games hit up to 2million damage. But psyker is seriously hard to master, here its just hold M1 until your problems go away while being all but immortal.

Haven’t had a group to try this build in havoc yet and I imagine it will probably fall off a bit but still. This feels silly. Infinite ammo should not be this easy to have with such a high sustained DPS gun.

(Build I’m currently using, not exactly optimal but still easily hitting 1+ million damage with my brain turned off after not having played the game for a few months More Dakka - Hive Scum Build for Darktide - Darktide WH40k I have since tweaked and made it less dumb, read the description of the build if your curious)

Edit: Have now tried some true solo havoc. I can get most of the way through havoc 25 missions with that build and I have gotten a decent bit into a few havoc 30 missions. Build still absolutely annihilates everything but gets a little stuffed by lieutenants and boss spam. Survivability is inconsistent but is surprisingly good. Either way I’m not exactly amazing at the game and I’m still being carried by these bullet hoses just vaporizing everything the game spawns. They even deal with crushers surprisingly well, especially now since I’m more accustomed to the crusher buff.

Edit 2: I think it may actually just be this build more then strictly the dual auto pistols. Accidentally left a 310 power infantry auto gun with tier 3 blessings equipped and in a Auric Maelstrom C-I-VI mission with a pure DPS venting level +305 psyker, and a full melee rampage tox build hive scum (vet probably didn’t know it was a no ammo mission rip them). Almost doubled the psykers damage, and nearly triple the other hive scum.

These are clearly way more skilled players then me and I don’t want anyone to think this is a genital measuring thing. It is just dumb that I can do this by holding M1 the whole game with a none maxed out gun. This is consistent with all of my recent games in terms of damage as well, a little on the low end mostly due to the very experienced team.

This infantry autogun seems pretty good for the build as well but has slightly lower DPS and not as mobile. Maybe a side grade due to the pretty good accuracy. Still crazy to do this sort of damage with a no where near maxed out gun.

[Hrupo]

Game is balanced around Havoc atp. Any build below Havoc can minmax damage and get results because team play and CC isn’t important.

It’s still a great build in Havoc but not solo map clearing great like in Auric.

Gun Scum - Hive Scum Build for Darktide - Darktide WH40k This is the build I run when I go Gun Scum. Ranged weapon can be dual autopistols or Vraks and perform just as well. Haymaker because it’s funny but you should go Uncanny.

[Vror]

Well it’s the result of a weapon being balanced by ammo count, suddendly given to a class with… infinite ammo by just killing elites/specials, whoops

If you try IAG Vraks on Vet or any other class that isn’t Scum, it’ll be fine, you can’t shoot it forever thus you’ll not be spraying hordes and snipe elites/specials alike

But because Scum has infinite ammo, they can do what they want xdd

[MarxistDictator]

Scum’s starting to make unfun games, like I’d rather play with a Smite user and have something to kill than ye old desperado pickpocket with 4 rockets. Honestly the rocket thing tilts me the most atm, but Scums shooting all round at everything in aurics is a little obnoxious for the people who have mere crums to mop up all game.

[Cheturnadcatii]

@Hrupo

Game is balanced around Havoc atp.

hive scum is above any balance.

Lets see what it have:

1. infinite ammo

2. better version of crack (missile launcher)

3. better version of immolation grenade (tox grenade)

4. immune to corruption (even crushers overhead instadeath can be avoided by this)

5. immune to melee attacks sliding

6. most OP range weapon (needle pistol) (it can bring down ANYTHING, with ENDLESS ammo)

7. have better version of haymaker (build in kinda)

8. better mobility than anyone (better dodges)

9. can be totally immune to ranged attacks

10. have most OP melee in game (shivs with build in zealot knifes, absurdly high dmg and very good combos)

Weaknesses:

1. Poor tougness resistance (but why u need this when u can totally avoid dmg).

So hive scum can:

1. totally do veterans job (hello revolver (if u tired of needle pistol) with endless ammo)

2. totally do zealot job (provide team with strong buff and corruption resistance)

3. totally do psyker job (kill everything)

4. not sure about ogryns, because do we really need aggro with all that stuff?

[JDLS]

@Hrupo

Game is balanced around Havoc atp. Any build below Havoc can minmax damage and get results because team play and CC isn’t important.

It’s still a great build in Havoc but not solo map clearing great like in Auric.

Yeah its not exactly the best teamplay focused class in general. Unless you count not picking up ammo as team play lol. But I have now ran a few true solo havoc 25/30 games and this build still whips basically everything. Though I have had all my runs stopped by lieutenant spawns, but lieutenants are the bane of true solo on every class, they do seem to take zero damage from the rocket launcher maybe its a glitch with solo play mod idk. Ill probably keep running some true solo attempts until I just don’t get a lieutenant spawn, just to see how much damage it ends up doing.

True solo havoc 30 is a bit too hard for me but I have gotten like 75% of the way through dark communion on havoc 25. So someone who is actually good could probably easily clear it.

[DiamondNova]

There is one thing that scums lack from zealot and vet, it is pee toughness. (why p i s s is banned word?!)

[ApeWithButterKnife]

I haven’t seen much of them be absurd in havoc 40. They die at a single mistake. Psyker is the easiest to get absurd damage on with flame staff. Compare flame staff to scum and scum will get outdone each time. Infinite cleave and fire vs a slower single target dps weapons of scum. or at best a couple enemies with blue mode on needle gun but nerffed dot to compensate. When the Ogryn was strong in havoc they nerffed it to the ground. Now I hardly see Ogryns in havoc. Would you like the same done to scum?

[Vror]

This to me just tells me you don’t even play H40 LOL

It’s hard for you to make a mistake as gun scum in H40 since not even melee hits will hit you if you’re running vulture’s dodge

IAG Vraks Scum will deal more individual damage than Flame Staff Psyker, difference is obviously the Psyker has infinite cleave and thus will deal more dmg because the director dumps 500000 elites at once, so I don’t know where the following comes from

@ApeWithButterKnife

vs a slower single target dps weapons of scum

“Ogryn was strong in Havoc and they nerfed it to the ground”
Ogryn is literally one of the best classes in Havoc, he does the Frontliner / Anchor role EXTREMELY better than all other classes, the difference between a H40 run with a Taunt ogryn vs a H40 run without a Taunt ogryn is night and day

Sure, if you want more variety of Ogryn that’s valid, but stating “Ogryn nerfed into the ground, and they’re barely a thing in Havoc anymore” is just objectively wrong and shows a lack of experience in the mode

[ApeWithButterKnife]

@Vror

This to me just tells me you don’t even play H40 LOL

I literally only play H40

@Vror

It’s hard for you to make a mistake as gun scum in H40 since not even melee hits will hit you if you’re running vulture’s dodge

then why isn’t there an influx of scum beating H40 like nothing? Use your brain bruvvv they still lose. Not many scum that join are these gods you make the class to be but sure let’s nerf it.

@Vror

is just objectively wrong and shows a lack of experience in the mode

No this is experience from everyday play of hosting H40 game and seeing hardly any requests from Ogryns. Dude just because it makes night and day difference from one build doesn’t mean there’s a lack of compared to Ogryn 2.0? Different experience and opinions from yours doesn’t show lack of gameplay in havoc literally post videos on a Darktide Facebook group of just havoc 40 stuff. But go off king! Hope this helps.

[Vror]

@ApeWithButterKnife

then why isn’t there an influx of scum beating H40 like nothing? Use your brain bruvvv they still lose. Not many scum that join are these gods you make the class to be but sure let’s nerf it.

..?

I think you need to re-read your statement

“If X thing is OP why isn’t it winning?”

Uh, cuz while it’s easy to abuse the damage potential and survival of it, most players can’t solo H40?

Like imagine if we used this argument for everything

“If Duelling Sword is OP why isn’t there an influx of players with it beating H40 like nothing? use your brain bruvv they still lose”

@ApeWithButterKnife

No this is experience from everyday play of hosting H40 game and seeing hardly any requests from Ogryns. Dude just because it makes night and day difference from one build doesn’t mean there’s a lack of compared to Ogryn 2.0?

I rejected 3 ogryns today that requested in a row because I already had an ogryn

Did you just move the goalpost?

From “they’re barely a thing in Havoc anymore” to “he’s lacking compared to Ogryn 2.0”

@ApeWithButterKnife

Different experience and opinions from yours doesn’t show lack of gameplay in havoc literally post videos on a Darktide Facebook group of just havoc 40 stuff. But go off king! Hope this helps.

Oh no this was all bait and I feel for it, Facebook user

[JDLS]

@ApeWithButterKnife

I haven’t seen much of them be absurd in havoc 40. They die at a single mistake. Psyker is the easiest to get absurd damage on with flame staff. Compare flame staff to scum and scum will get outdone each time. Infinite cleave and fire vs a slower single target dps weapons of scum.

This really depends. Lets just start with the easy DPS comparison. Just comparing Havoc 40 datatide renegade ragger and bruiser clear times. Psyker average havoc 40 bubble build flame psyker clears in 6 seconds (best time), My current (not optimal at all) gun scum build clears in 8 seconds (best time). That is 26 enemies 8 ragers. So a normal spawn group (Yeah usually you see multiple spawn groups at once)

Obviously this is a reasonably small group so psyker cleave isn’t in full effect but the autoguns do penetrate enemies and have very high DPS (The stat card lies it actually deals double the damage it shows as it shoots two bullets at a time) buffed by stims and desperado to insanely high DPS.

Flame psyker doesn’t have very long range and while it has infinite cleave and obviously incredibly high damage, its only doing that to ~50 enemies at a time on the high end. Psyker does more damage but just putting it into perspective psyker is going to clear average waves at most 2x faster then gun scum, in most cases I would expect more like ~1.3x-1.5 faster clears on typical havoc waves. (But also you have the rocket launcher that can wipe out particularly dense clumps of elites so you can mop up the rest with the autoguns). Like yes the auto guns don’t penetrate elites but they do absolutely evaporate elites by looking at them for a nano second combined with much longer range. You kill enemies before they can really pile up.

Hive scum is also WAY more durable. Similar health and toughness to psyker but way more dodges, way more effective dodges, faster move speed, longer range and more versatile guns, and incredibly powerful invincibility abilities (vultures dodge and desperado).

Yeah psyker definitely has the raw DPS no one can ever deny that, but gun scum isn’t that far behind and makes up for it with range and survivability. Its just way lower skill floor for not that much less damage.

While its not exactly a good data point I can tell you that I am doing 2-4x more damage then even very high level psykers in my auric maelstrom games (have seen multiple level 200+ psykers who have played havoc). This is obviously mostly because I kill the enemies before the psykers are in range but still.

[Garfielf]

Its damage and ammo sustain is balanced by its absolute inability to hold a line.

[ApeWithButterKnife]

Yeah good points man, I just dislike the argument that “scums brain dead op” when I see very little people in havoc that make me say damn that class is op as hell. There’s still a big skill gap from good players and bad ones. If they nerf the dodges and dps what will scum have? What does he bring to the table? I’m ok with chem nade being nerffed that things so damn op. I’m just curious not defending just debating.

[4SkinTim]

There are tons of Ogryns in havoc 40 (or at least here in SEA/Hong Kong servers). They are always the lowest in the scoreboard at the very end, but one of the most crucial and popular teammates in h40 here. Between an ogryn and a hive scum, most players here would still select the ogryn as the final teammate.

I’m not fully familiar with the meta in Europe, but in Asia orgrns draw all the aggression, vets throw smokes, psykers with only bubbles and inferno staff (you’ll get judged or people just leave, if there’s no bubble in your build). People sometimes select hive scums over zealots, but will often prefer an ogryn over hive scums. Despite ogryns always getting the lowest in scoreboards.

Vet’s smoke and psyker’s bubble are the cornerstone of asian havoc 40 meta. The other 2 teammates are optional, but preferbly an ogryn. We have a very slow and steady playstyle built upon everyone gathering around smoke/bubbles, so a hive scum’s running-around playstyle is not very popular to lots of havoc teams here. Very hard to get teams with the arbitrator class too. You usually need to host your own game.

[4SkinTim]

Psykers still usually top the scoreboards in h40 games, despite the hive scum’s infinite ammo. Inferno staff is Psyker’s version of infinite ammo, but it has higher damage potential than any of scum’s weapons, and a lot easier to use (no aiming skills required).

Psykers are not seriously hard to master, I actually find the hive scum much more skill-based than the psyker, lol. As the psyker you just flame everything while constantly repositioning to the safest spot, and trying your best to survive massive hordes. As the hive scum you also survive by constantly dodging and repositioning, but you also need a good aim while attacking. Or need to calculate how many needles you’ve shot each enemy. And also manage your cartel stimm+abilities, etc.

[ApeWithButterKnife]

In USA we aren’t as organized and yes Ogryn is amazing I’m an Ogryn main! But unfortunately here after the nerfs to him and the triple health of enemies not much of them are on that I see

[4SkinTim]

Oh and btw remember how hive scums are dropping like flies in havoc before the latest patch, where every class(except ogryn) now has the infinite ranged dodge-linger bug? This is why you see lots of hive scums surviving in havoc games right now.

There used to be a bug with the hive scum’s Nimble talent, whereby it actually worsen the hive scum’s dodge window. So they fixed it, but with a side effect of giving all classes(except ogryn) a new bug, making all classes able to infinitely dodge all enemy range fire right now, even if their dodge counts are at max negative.

This latest bug is giving everyone the strange illusion that Hive Scum has ‘surprisingly good survivability’ in havoc right now. But once they fix the new bug, hive scums will probably drop like flies in havoc once again, lol. (Unless it’s a desperado build, which temporarily gives it the same ranged invulnerability as the current bug provides.)

Now is actually the best time to make your own H40 true solo videos, before they fix the bug, lol! Not a lot of people are posting about this latest bug, or even know about it unless they are very perceptive, so I’m not sure if Fatshark will actually fix it in the next patch.

[AccountMadeToReply]

the nimble talent was never changed, still hasnt changed, it still works the same way it always has. Fatshark made dodge linger apply to ranged attacks and just a few minutes later already said they were going to undo/fix that issue after the holidays because of how overpowered it is.

Also said they would address the ‘issue’ with nimble, so we’ll just have to wait and see what they do about that

[silentbob515]

Wait, you guys allow Scums in your Havoc premades?