Hive scum and old wepons

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
1

The release of Hive Scum once again highlighted an old problem: a lot of weapons in the game are complete garbage, and almost nobody uses them, even on low-intensity missions.

Let’s take a look:

Infantry, Braced and Vigilant autoguns, generic autopistols, pump-action shotguns, revolvers.
I honestly tried to use every variant and found no reason why I should use any of them.

To understand the main problem, you only need to look at one parameter — DPS.
All weapons given to Hive Scum have significantly lower DPS than class-specific dual pistols/autoguns and the needler.
When I say “DPS”, I mean the total amount of damage a weapon can deal over a noticeable period of time — for example, one minute with 100% accuracy. Hive Scum have a huge buff to CoF, so I think this comparison is fair.

Absolutely all autoguns — all 9 (NINE) of them — have lower DPS.
You simply don’t need them.
Nobody needs them as long as dual autopistols exist.
Even the shredder autopistol has about 20% lower DPS compared to them.
They need a flat damage increase.

Pump-action shotguns have drastically low damage, extremely long reload times, and no good special actions.
There’s no need to think about what to do — you already know what to do. Just look at the Arbiter variants: they actually do their job.

As I remember, people asked many times (after the Arbiter release and maybe even before) to make special ammo work permanently after pressing the special action button.

Zarona has an unbearable reload time, and Agripinaa has too little damage.
Give Agripinaa more damage, and give Zarona a normal magazine-based reload.

I don’t want to discuss melee weapons for Hive Scum, but the situation with heavy swords, chain axes, and all regular axes is just as bad as with ranged weapons.
They need something important and original added to them.

Hive scum don’t use them, other classes don’t use them either.

Really, I’m sure you have years of accumulated statistics to identify bad weapons in the game.

Just rework them.

You gave Scum a couple of new weapons, and almost only those are worth players’ attention. This is not a healthy state for the game.

By the way,
I don’t like Hive Scum =)

3 Likes
2

Infantry Autogun Vraks, Shredder Autopistol, Agrapinaa Shotgun and Zarona Revolver are all 100% viable in Havoc 40 LOL (with Agrapinaa Shotgun being on the lower end)

Infantry Autogun Vraks is the BEST Scum choice, better than Dual Autopistols even

5 Likes
3

Are they? Those melee picks are many things, but bad isn’t one of them. You could say Heavy Swords have a problem with Carapace damage, but that’s probably the only real issue with those weapons.

4 Likes
4

Heavy sword is pretty doo doo

2 Likes
5

game balance really sucks when people can use a weapon that kills like 7 ragers in a single swing and go “weapon kinda sucks tbh”

12 Likes
6

Okay, let’s agree that you are right about the things you mention. What about the others?

I’m sure that if you really wanted to, you could go through HAV40 with two dildos in your hands, but what would that prove? Only your own skills with dildos.

We both have different experiences and different opinions, but I can definitely say that when you have something that is the best, you don’t need the others. So you faced the same problem but from another side.

7

Damn, with that attitude, your Darktide experience sounds really boring.

3 Likes
8

It’s not about attitude, it’s about arguments.
The point of my post about the “best weapon” and how all the others are useless was that someone replied saying I was wrong and that there’s another best weapon.

I find it strange that I have to clarify this.

9

Because a post like this needs nuance and at least some demonstration.

Like, I personally won’t argue against combat shotguns and zarona revolvers being not good for any Hive Scum build, but if I claim it and someone says I’m wrong, it’s up to me to decide if I need to prove myself.

It’s not a one-size fits all claim you can make without any pushback, any build on scum can spec into infinite ammo, so the melee and support builds can take combat shotties and revolvers if they wanted to and there’s probably a use case for a non-desperado build to take something besides a needle pistol.

I wouldn’t even argue about the state of autoguns, either, but there is a video of a guy claiming and demonstrating that the vraks IAG has higher DPS than the dual autopistols.

2 Likes
10

“We both have different experiences and different opinions”

Right, but your lack of experience does not justify your argument. You claimed old weapons are bad, yet there are some that are better even than the unique ones for the class

A melee example would be Combat Blade being better than Shivs when you go for a Desperado build

Yes, ideally we should have better balance, but the issue I wanna point out with your post is that you have no idea where that balance should go towards

But on another hand, there will ALWAYS be something that’s the best, that’s not the issue. The issue is when the best is waaaay better than the other options, the closer the best and the worst options are, the less problems there will be

4 Likes
11

Tactical Axe downplaying will continue until morale improves.

11 Likes
12

Also you missed an entire forum war that started because dual smgs are worse than mk 5 infantry autogun.

3 Likes
13

Arguably one of, if not scums best melee weapon

7 Likes
14

Cole is #1 tac axe meatrider

15

These garbage weapons are pretty much the only choices the Hive Scum has, lol. But at least the Hive Scum has the pickpocket talent to make these garbage shine.

16

https://youtu.be/7sGKuYScoYw?si=KwOygzMpLhJJdZf_ Shameless plug

2 Likes
17

Lol. Lmao even.

The whiplash continues.

IAG is just good period, it’s not even a scum thing, it’s fantastic on Exe MF Vet too who basically turns it into a pinpoint accurate laser of death. Mks not being competitive with each other is a separate issue in no way unique to IAG.

Haven’t used vigilantes in a while so won’t comment on them.

Brauto has been the definition of “ok” for forever. Yeah it’s power crept but it honestly still doesn’t really feel bad to use to me, just out competed. My usual suggestion is to rework the bracing mechanic to actually do something (graia aside, that one mostly just has a damage/cleave problem).

5 Likes
18

Vraks infantry autogun is very good for scum, it is best on him among all classes that got it. Gun psyker and veteran also can use it good enough but will struggle with ammo.

Braced are bad on everyone, ok on scum due to infinite ammo.

Shredder good enough on everyone with high crit builds, best on scum.

Revolvers better on other classes, unfit for scum. Maybe they should buff cowboy variant.

Agripinaa shotgun is good enough on all classes it exists except scum, though on scum it along with other variants is worst due to reload. Overall worst shotgun variant is middle one, forgot what it called.

Chain weaponry sucks on scum because rev attack don’t extend rampage, except 1st hit, they would be no worse than on others if it did.

Combat axe is fine and scum one of the best to use it because can boost attack speed a lot.

Tac axes good on everyone.

Heavy sword is great on scum and can with stimm+(or) one talent for rampage rend armor. Basically crushers are only struggle for it, if fight is against dregs, then it is one of the best weapons, that reduces threat of ragers to nearly zero.

1 Like
19

Alright, alright. If you think your experience beats math, fine. That’s your right.

20

Yeah, man, your poor neck needs a brace. Unfortunately, it’s just a result of you lurking too much because I’m not the one adjusting my opinion, it’s just that opinions have varied and now been shaken up by the new class.

IAG is extremely whelming on most classes. It was too strong for a brief time, got nerfed, then got power-crept a bit. It used to be something you could use to kill Crushers pretty easily.

It’s a straight upgrade over the Dual Autopistols specifically on Hive Scum, tho.

Only true if you’re not hitting headshots, my man.