Hive scum and old wepons

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
21

In fact, the infantry autogun has significantly higher DPS than dual autopistols against both Maniacs and Unyielding enemies.

The shredder autopistol boasts the highest DPS against Maniacs.

Their DPS is only lower than dual autopistols when facing Flak Armour.

The above scenarios don’t even need to account for headshots. if you can maintain a high headshot rate, even against Flak Armour enemies, their DPS will surpass that of dual autopistols.

You can easily test all of the above in the Psykhanium

22

When was IAG nerfed I don’t remember it ever being nerfed. Onslaught still exists on veteran if you want to kill crushers with it.

also no one is hitting consistent headshots with IAG, especially the vraks. And once again people are looking solely at dps values on afk psykhanium enemies instead of actually playing playing a game with the weapons.

The only hive scum weapon that needs adjusting is crowbar. It’s boring to use and the special is very bad.

23

I believe IAGs had their crit chains nerfed ages ago, so they shoot less consecutive critical bullets when a crit procs. I prefer playing IAG 5 over dual smgs because the damage is comparable and it can actually hit across the map snipers, but I also am a melee goblin and have stopped playing Desperado entirely so my opinion on it doesn’t matter.

Crowbar is genuinely one of the few weapons in the game that actually needs a buff. It is jank as hell.

24

What an odd thing to say. I never suggested such a thing. Just funny seeing the assertion that every autogun is trash after your thread. And yeah I maintain IAG is still a solid weapon outside Scum.

As the kids say, it’s not that deep bro.

25

Ah, don’t worry about it, I was just trying to be light-hearted.

Literally none of my opinion was formed in the psykanium, just from gameplay.

It’s not that hard to hit headshots on Vraks, especially on a big target like Crushers. You can also just aim at head level and slowly move across a horde and get enormous numbers of headshots. Yeah, the initial climb takes you off-target, but you just pull your aim down. It steadies out and only occasionally has enough horizontal recoil to go off-target.

26

This test is not reasonable. Pinning fire didn’t work while against single boss target and unyielding damage doesn’t mean every thing. In normal game, the dual autopistols always deal much more damage than IAG because of higher non-finesse damage to hordes/elites and running shooting’s higher mobility.

27

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I only started using the Vraks IAG because of these threads

I don’t honestly get why anyone argued so hard against this weapon on scum, it’s dumb and good.

Just this mk, tho

28

Harder to use for desperado builds, since you can no longer run and gun. Lesser dps compared to dual uzis against certain enemy targets like flak armor body shots, or at close range (but IAG also wins the dual uzis against certain enemy types, like reapers). Initial steep climb in recoil means you likely won’t get 100% headshots at the beginning. IAG headshots are much stronger than dual uzi, but body shots are much weaker in damage. Lots of enemies in actual combat situations have random flinching/ducking animations that constantly ruin your headshot crosshair placements, and thus your actual dps dealt. Or are moving and running around, harder for you to get headshots.

It’s not that it’s bad for the scum, or that people are against it. But just that it turns you into less mobile scum, like a much weaker ranged IAG vet/psyker kind of character but with infinite ammo(less burst dps for tight situations, but high sustain dps). A different playstyle if you prefer it.

Standard desperado builds(or just vulture’s dodge) using dual uzis on the other hand, can help out your entire team by drawing and tanking all ranged damage. Since you are running ahead of everyone else into any ranged hordes while your teammates follow closely behind. (You can do that with IAF, but not as effectively since you have to slide and gun and mess up your crosshair placement and dps and stuff.)

29

Btw here in SEA, people will judge/mock you if you bring any infantry or vigilant autoguns into havoc missions, though. (Or play a vet without smoke grenades, etc.) There’s a bit of a prejudice against these weapons here, haha.

Asian gamers have completely different meta in Havoc compared to western players. But seems like both asian and western gamers treat their own subjective metas, as if they are already the absolute objective truths. Or feel as if Fatshark is limiting their choices in havoc…but already people from different countries are using different builds and philosophy to excel in havoc. Each thinking their’s is “right”, and anything else different is “wrong”.

30

I do think this is a good point, but once you… deal with that it just becomes better

I guess I am lucky that since the moment I downloaded the game, I also downloaded a mod to never change your FoV (meaning that when aiming, my fov doesn’t change and it stays the same as if I was aiming, you can see this in a few posts where I upload videos) and set the aiming sensitivity to the same as the non-aiming sensitivity. Thus because ADS with IAG becomes the same as aiming as if it was braced, then it becomes a lot more powerful for just free

I don’t need to get into the gunners face to instantly shred them, I can simply ADS and freely aim at them no biggie at all

Add “Crosshair remap” to this and now you can also know where the bullet will fire if you set the dot when you’re ADS with the weapon, meaning that then it becomes perfectly possible to hit all headshots if your skill is true

Of course the issue with this logic, is that it requires at least 2 mods (Constant FOV and Crosshair remap), but this has defenitely proven that when your sens and fov are not changed when ADS, IAG really becomes a lot more powerful than Dual Autopistols could ever wish for

31

Kind of feel like y’all are putting an over emphasis on some things.

My headshot score has not been that great and I’m bullying psykers out of a job.

Also sprinting and shooting seems like a good way to drain all stamina and get pancaked when you need to dodge.

32

Most of those weapons are useless for the rest of the classes in most cases, or were never really viable, but most weapons have become very viable for the Hive Scum. In fact, the shotgun used to be useless outside of some Veteran builds, but now with the Hive Scum you can comfortably use it in Havoc and it performs quite well.

33

You are just wrong about these. The revolver is the best special sniper in the game. A crit body hit will kill. The shotguns are incredibly good, especially on hivescum, and the autoguns are some of the better dps for bullet weapons.

Shredder can knock over whole rager packs when braced. The dual autopistols can’t.

Actually if you just shoot things in the face they die pretty easily, and the blessings are amazing. Also the slug can one shot reapers.

Yeah let’s just turn the shotgun into a single shot rifle that one shots reapers and staggers crushers shall we? That doesn’t sound broken at all.

Heavy sword is one of the best weapons on hive scum. The amount of crit you get combined with the ignore hit mass from armor on crit makes it cleave through ragers and maulers. The chainaxe can chain one shot crushers with either stimm or rampage and cleave through whole hordes without ever stopping light spam, the combat axe has incredible one shot potential and can one shot maulers and ragers with an overhead, and the tac axe is still the best weapon in the game and extremely broken on hivescum hitting for half a crusher’s HP on auric.

Because you clearly don’t know how to build it. There’s nothing wrong with that, but just say that instead of making stuff up about the balance state of the game. None of what you said is true. Those weapons aren’t just viable on hive scum, they’re downright broken in some instances.

34

Nah, the fov change or crosshair is not an issue, and I already have the crosshair mod.

If only the IAG won’t stop your running the moment you shoot/reload your gun, then it would really be a great alternative to dual uzis. Problem is if you try to slide forward and gun with IAG, every time you stand up to run before your next slide it just keeps on interrupting your shooting. And if you ADS with it while sliding, every brace and unbracing adds slight moments where you can’t shoot at all. So you get at most one short burst in every slide. Not sure how to describe it properly. Try to slide forward and gun with the IAG in psykhanium and you’ll get what I mean. The dual uzis on the other hand let you gun all the way while running forward.

The IAG is just not designed to be a run n gun style of weapon, and with weaker flak armor body dps compared to the dual uzis at close to medium ranges. (Or pretty much at all ranges, if you’re good with dual uzis and have memorized the exact reverse recoil pattern for it’s first 12 bullets. So you can spray at all distances, using it more like a sniping weapon.)

Most players seem to use the dual autopistols by adjusting recoil through only normal human reaction speed (average human reaction has around 200ms lag), so it will only be moderately accurate at close ranges. But if you use it to the fullest potential through predictive recoil control(eliminating human reaction lag) by memorizing its reverse recoil pattern(first 4 bullets has small upward recoil, around 5th to 8th has bigger recoil, 9th to 12th bullet small recoil again), you can shoot the dual autopistols like a perfect aimbot. As a sniping weapon usable at all ranges. So my dps comparison between IAG and dual autopistols at various ranges, will be slightly different from many other people’s testing and comparisons. I currently still favors the dual uzis, but I can also understand why others prefer the IAG.

35

Not all auto guns are useless; only the vigilant gun is. The other two each have their own uses.

The infantry type has one model that is good at taking on monsters, while the other two models are better at dealing with long-range targets.

Braced guns excel at handling special enemies at medium to close range.

Of course, they all have significant weaknesses, and in the current gaming environment, they are very ineffective against heavily armored targets.

The Vigilant autoguns is completely outdated compared to the game version, with severely insufficient damage and poor handling.

The autopistol is a piece of trash right now; it’s really too weak.

36

No, it’s not about maths being the source of truth. It’s about variety in your game experience.

There is nothing wrong in someone spending 100-1000s of hours playing with the very limited number of the “best” picks from the perspective of “meta”, but there is plenty of us who consider those picks boring and purposefully avoid “hyper-optimised” set-ups. Living by the “meta” for me would literally cut out content from the game. There is plenty of new experiences to have with other, not-so-optimal setups and weapons.

That variety, personal preferences (I like “enter-an-obscure-weapon-name-here”) and seeking a self-imposed extra difficulty modifier provides a lot of people with new content you purposefully ignore, because “my dps meter and other metric say that X is the best setup”.

People are motivated by different things. In your own words: I find it strange that I have to clarify this :grin:

Also if you consider “maths” or “meta” the only metric which picks your weapons and builds for you, it doesn’t matter what Fatshark would have done to those old weapons. With your current approach, someone would “crunch” the numbers, and proclaim this and that is the current best setup according to the numbers and again lock you in a narrow set of meta picks.

There is no way Fatshark could make all builds and weapons equally attractive with such strict expectations. I mean, in the end of the day, something will always have lower DPS, armour pen, mobility or whatever else metric you bring up in an attempt to find the new “best” set-up.

Also, I’m not saying go play with a grey weapon or something. I’m saying pick a weapon from the pile, consider its characteristics and make a build around its strengths and weaknesses, even if weapon X, Y or Z on that class would be better on paper.

To not be too confrontational, I agree there is plenty of ranged weapons in Darktide which feel meh, aren’t fun to use for me. To the point I would never use them, but then I don’t play Tide games for great shooter experience. Some weapons just feel like relics from other time, when Darktide was a different game.

37

I also read this guys post and realized he had no idea what he was talking about.

38

Vraks auto infantry is the only way to play competitive desperado builds. It can chain crit, unlike all of the other ‘Hive Scum’ guns that can not. Crowbar actually sucks, and bone saw is just mid. the best Hive weapon is needle gun and shivs but beyond that the “normal” weapons outclass everything currently.

I don’t want to discuss melee weapons for Hive Scum, but the situation with heavy swords, chain axes, and all regular axes is just as bad as with ranged weapons.
They need something important and original added to them.

What?! axes are great on hive scum what are we even sayin!?

I dont mind that everyone gets an opinion, but not everyone gets enough experience before excercising their right to one.

39

This is a take of all time, shotguns can reach 1 shot bps on elites, double barrel can kill crushers in 5 shots (in rotten armor), dual auto pistols are insane and kill everything that is not a crusher (neither does viagv) and needle pistol is purg staff with a 0.8 carsuperarmour adm

40

its not an insane take, the OP made a claim that tanner proved already in his video about the DPS of the gun. Its why mister e, tanner, and anyone else take it due to the fact dual uzis already hit for less, but they can not chain crit. the infantry auto gun can chain crit and it already does more dps. Not only that the auto pistols actual DPS is terrible its one of the worst guns for hive scum. the only good gun HS got was needle gun… thats pretty much it.

edit: Uzi has run n gun built in so i guess that is something but the damage is really low.