so far it feels weak, i feel like im reloading non-stop, I have 3 grace buttons for “oh #@%$” situations in the form of chem nades, for some reason when I dodge, i still get hit (i tried the 50% increase range and time node as well) I dont know… nothing particularly besides the nades screams “powerful” hes just…….. ok and thats not that great when you bring an ok class into 40 havoc.
Edit: I have reached max level and I am beyond that sitting at around level 51 true level (30+21)
I began having fun around level 27 when I gained access to some survivability. So that answers when I start having fun
I have also formed a new opinion of the class overall I have taken it into every difficulty the game has, from auric, to havoc (36 since I haven’t grinded for 40 and it was highest I could get to and complete) and even a few mortis trials trying out different builds seeing what kind of buffs you get (its insane how crazy op rampage is in mortis trials)
so here is my NEW opinion of Hive Scum
the class is still bad for havoc period… i dont care what anyone tells me. Can it be done? yes, Does it provide anything that other classes cannot? no….. absolutely not and its squishy as hell. Two of its premier builds are very greedy likened to things like a castigator arbitrator or a psycher without telekine shield. However it doesn’t have comparable DPS to the psycher who is comparably less squishy than him. or comparable tankiness to the arby. He is too much glass not enough cannon.
anything below havocs, he is fun to play and even viable.
adrenaline frenzy keystone - (bad, don’t use it) desperately tries pretending its not trying to be disrupt destiny, but its painfully obvious that is where its competition is. However it has all the downsides disrupt destiny does NOT have…. and mind you there is no movement speed for adrenaline stacks (we are playing melee right?) you need to get 30 stacks of adrenaline before you get your adrenaline frenzy and there is only 2 seconds (4 if you put a talent in for it) you have before ALL stacks drop and you need to begin building it up again. Did I mention Adrenaline gives you absolutely nothing before transforming into adrenaline frenzy? The least they could do is smack a 1% bonus move speed per stack OR SOMETHING so we can keep it ramping up and not miss out on getting adrenaline to 30 stacks! “but wait you can talent it to also give double stacks on kills!” yeah so when you face a monstrosity and begin whacking it your stacks begin falling off removing a large portion of your damage if there isnt a horde nearby to keep your stacks from falling off. point im making is disrupt destiny is the counter argument to this skill node, and it has none of this skills downsides. even the way the stacks fall off is 1 at a time, not all at once, allowing you to keep up a considerable amount of DPS during your downtimes.
rampage ability - again, being a squishy greedy guy, it actively competes for psychers scriers gaze… with yet again.. more downsides that are actually tool tipped so that means they baked them in on purpose. You become exhausted after rampage expires why? scriers gets more bonus damage, more crit, more pen, and the same movement speed and when coming out of scriers you maintain the buffs for another 10 seconds! Wasnt this the direction this class should have went as well if they were going to be a 1 hit face mat in most cases? where is the DPS trade off?
In most cases if you choose to be a run and gunner you have to ask yourself what is the point in going down the left side tree? the biggest selling point is crit! but you get the exact same amount of crit from chemical dependency + tons of CDR! Why would you ever at this games current point opt to go into vulture’s mark keystone?!? you get plenty of sprint speed from ult anyway if you over value the movement speed. speaking of running and gunning… the dual auto-pistols have a built in mechanic you can sprint and hipfire the weapon. so why does run and gun have a blessing spot on this weapon!? I know it is not for the 15% close damage.
bugs - the class is riddled with them, from stim pack being used if you want to drop stimm supply, forcing you into a rigorous rotation of having to play dodgey dodge while im stimming so i dont waste it, and then placing stimm supply. the bugs with hyper critical are awful for toughness regeneration because if hyper critical kills an enemy you no longer gain toughness from things like voice of tertium and precision violence for the rest of the duration of the game. Jittery talent is also bugged if you dodge slide. Long Lasting +5 sec stim doesn’t count if you use stimm supply ability so if you aren’t stimming yourself you lose this talent. If toxin kills an enemy it doesn’t count as ranged kill, so voice of tertium sucks with toxic stuff. sample collector has some issues
cant deal with big stuff well IE: carapace/monstrosities
Gunslinger Improved - stop, just stop saying this talent is the survivalist 2.0. It’s not, and in-fact its more like survivalist “the old beta idea” because its incredibly volatile. You have to know your team comp in order to take it and in that case yes it has potential to be survivalist 2.0 but at best it can be “crappy version” of survivalist. Here is a scenario, you take gunslinger improved while using a needle gun. The needle gun has at max mastery 20 and a 500 level weapon with 80% ammo max capacity being 102. say you pick up a small ammo crate which restores 15% of your max ammo pool. ok that’s 15.3 (15 rounded) so 10% of what I GOT was 15 = 1.53 so 2 bullets. Yes, my team gets two bullets back from that pickup!. whereas if survivalist would have given you 1% of your TOTAL ammo supply to everyone. IE: Gunslinger Improved favors builds with higher effective ammo pools to give out more to the party
feel free to pick apart my assessment, as it can still change further into the future as the class evolves and bugs are cleaned up.
It’s like a Zealot, but on crack & more fragile. You don’t really have many safety nets. But you do have a sht ton of DPS to make up for it, if used correctly. It’s a learning curve for sure. You’re used to playing more tanky classes & it’s a big shock to the system, no doubt.
Eh, the class is pretty mid into high havoc. The chem grenades are goated, but just generally the class is fairly bad into carapace and the main thing ending games lately is rotten armor spam. Overall I think it’s fun, but on the weaker side. Not unmanageable, not amazing
luckily, you may be right about that. So I am sticking with it. but for now this is how im feeling about the class. When I am level 30 maybe I can work something up and this class will become fun. However the main issue is that it doesnt really feel fun.
I mean I came from playing all the classes in H40 including psycher (previously the squishiest class imo) something about this class just feels off. I feel like there are a lot of ideas, but nothing got stapled down to set it apart from everything else. He has psycher dots, mixed with the gun spam of vets, and the melee feels like how the melee was on Ogryn pre-buffs. Like i told another poster, im going to stick with it, and see how it feels at level 30 before i say this class is good or bad or mid.
Already level 50ish so far. It is a skill issue for sure, he’s correct. I’d say the class is slightly above average, IMO, but maybe not better compared to other classes so far, but more fun. You need to really dodge & move around as much as possible, which is really the key. Just don’t be out in the open with your pants caught down, or else you’re toast. I feel it’s a common way to die as this class is gunners so far. Don’t be so quick to judge just yet. Once you get a feel for it & if you’re still down about it, then it’s fine if you don’t care for it.
In my humble opinion and based on the time I have spent playing the class, this is kinda what I consider a must, fundamental talents to have. Of course, the Aura and Blitz are up to you.
Main ones are:
Voice of Tertirum, Precision Violance, Nible, Jittery, Tis but a Scratch, Burst of Energy.
And if you use Cartel stim then Sample collector with either Blackout blitz + Pocket Toxin, or Chem Granade.
One of the comments is saying there’s reports of the dodge increase talent is actually decreasing it. Do with that what you will. Sounds like typical FS to me.
So, my updated opinion on the Scum. I think he’s actually super solid below Havoc’s with his gun-play & melee as a support class. It’s just super fun, honestly, being a gunslinger is pretty cool… I just love that kind of role, plus he’s just so agile, it’s amazing. He truly shines in his ability to take out elites/specials incredibly fast. I feel this is really his strongest asset, alongside giving people stimm abilities, his bread & butter. So, boss & armor damage is very lackluster to me, unless you’re specifically building into chem toxin to melt bosses/armor, which is great, but not mindblowingly good, knowing that other classes kill bosses/armor way faster, granted… As for Havoc… Personally, he’s okay in Havoc’s, but not like on the amazing end. I only play 40’s as well. What I mean is that since health pools are inflated, I feel he’s lacking a bit on the DPS side. He’s not terrible, but not great either, just right in the middle of the spectrum & that’s with me being a try-hard sweat. Plus, I feel like he doesn’t really offer too much to the team besides the stimm crates, of course. Now, my opinions could totally change. As time goes on & they potentially update the class, but those are my impressions at level 57 thus far. Just average in Havoc’s & incredible below them. Now, take that with a grain of salt… I’m not shtting on the class, by any means, because I do actually enjoy playing scum & I do see real potential here. I’m just giving a rough estimation of where I think his abilities lie & what they’re capable of from my personal judgment. So, I’ve seen so many players die as the scum in Havoc’s & elsewhere. So my other opinion is that I do feel like this class has a higher skill ceiling than initially anticipated, maybe not Psyker level, because that’s a lot of micro-management to get good at that for up-keeping abilities, but what I mean is dodge-timing, map-placement positioning, blocking/shoving & your natural instincts on certain situational awareness events, things like that for your survival. I like the class for sure. I feel there needs to be improvement still in some areas. If I had to rank Havoc’s like a B+Tier & like honestly an A to an S-Tier in everything else. One more thing… I will say that the Chem Toxin nades are right up there with kraks/shredders, no doubt in my mind as one of the best nades in the game.
Edit: I would like to say that this is just a rough outlook on what I think is the state of the class is currently. There’s a hell of a lot of bugs currently, so some of my assessments might not be totally fair… Keep that in mind… When they eventually fix the class or even buff some aspects… Of course, my opinion will change along side the new data. I do want to be totally fair with my assessment.
This is how I feel. They’re a lot of fun and I enjoy their pace of fighting. It has upped it a bit from the Veteran - my mainstay - and I’ve had to sharpen up with my dodge timing and listening for cues; I had not realised just how lax I’d gotten with the class power creep.
Must say I am in love with the Stub Automatics; they’re everything I could have hoped for, although the special is taking some getting used to. All I need now is for Fatshark to also let me have a single Stub Automatic on my Veteran (WHEN?!? I need it).
He also said there were reports of recoil and spread talent doing the opposite… didnt seem that way to me in testing grounds. May have been hotfixed or just in match
So far I’ve gotten the Hive Scum to 20, and my experience has been mixed, mostly running the dual autopistols and shivs, though I also won’t claim to be the most amazing Darktide player.
The agility of the class is fantastic, and the blitzes are all fun in terms of feel. However, the blitzes are wildly disproportionate in terms of their lethal effects, the class feels painfully pillowfisted against armor and bosses (at least with Shivs and Autopistols up to lvl20), and feels so squishy that you effectively have to play the class as if you only ever have 1HP. Having a Taunt build ogryn in the party made a night and day difference as to how effectively I was able to play the class, while games with 4 teen-level Hive Scum on Heresy wiped every time.
I’m curious to see how this changes from 20->30 as more talents and better gear come into play. I recall the Pysker originally (when I was leveling it up pre-Patch 13) being abysmal until about that point, so it could just be an issue for lower levels.
