Each time I’m blasting a boss or chaos patrol I thank Grimnir I have them.
Yep, that’s exactly my thought too, and I think the first step to learning a more active IB playstyle is to learn to not hold on to Impenetrable. But while you like to do it as an interrupt, I prefer going berserk and taking care of a large amount of enemies at once, either Elites when a patrol was accidentally aggroed or a horde pulled a lot of them, or a bad ambush. That’s when the half again as long near-invulnerability comes to its own, and allows very effective killing for longer and often enough, ensures that I get out with minimal damage taken. Different playstyles and ideas, and nothing more.
I’ve said it elsewhere, but holding on to your Career skill and only using it as an escape or panic button isn’t really effective, and while their impact can be great, they alone are rarely enough to salvage a situation gone wrong. But as you learn to play better, you also learn to see when thing start to go wrong, and get a greater window to use you skill more effectively to save the situation. Instead of popping Impenetrable when the team’s already overwhelmed and separated, use it a second or two earlier when everyone’s still close enough to help each other. Or just when things are intense enough, even if things seem to be under control, just to give that extra edge to help things not go wrong. It’s always easier to do maintenance than repair, and easier to prevent troubles than to get out of them. But only experience will teach when things can be prevented.
The same goes for Potions and Bombs, btw; after the problems have started it’s far more difficult to find time to use one than when they’re just starting. So pop that Strength potion when the Patrol’s approaching, not when the first SV or CW is already striking you.
Those are things I’ve had to actively teach myself (and I’m still not there with Potions), and if you want to learn to use Career Skills or items better it can be very useful to play several games where you purposefully overuse them, to get used to both the situations when they’re useful and their use in the middle of action.
Interestingly enough, Oi! Wazzok and Booming Taunt together seem to be almost as often used as Heart of Gromril. So there might be some merit to combining them… And the combination might (and probably would) give an additional boost to their use, too.
1 Like
I think the reason for the boss taunt is for doing the inverse of what you were talking about. Instead of trying to taunt an entire hoard, the IB just taunts the boss and keeps it occupied while the others take out the hoard. Little simpler I’d say.
Oh yeah I get that, it’s more that I don’t often see situations where the boss needs to be taunted. Considering how strong the general taunt and DR are, I don’t really want to use it to taunt a boss just because, you know?
1 Like
drakefire pistols - end of topic really. unlimited ammo and the ability to pretty much solo a horde and kill anything short of shielded SV and chaos warriors.
The only thing he really lacks is map control so if he gets stuck in a bad spot then he’s in big trouble. he doesn’t have a get out of jail free card like the handmaiden or zealot
2 Likes
You can push through a dense horde with ult and drakefire pistols shotgun mode. The only real issuae is getting surrounded by CWs or Stormvermin, but luckily this can be easily prevented 
1 Like
Well he is a tank, and his “staying power” comes at the cost of mobility.
I upvoted for Boss Taunt. I usually play with a Shade, and its fun to combine the boss taunt with their raw damage output. Just makes things super easy and clean, which I enjoy. I can pull it away from a horde, and let the shade work in peace. It’s not as useful in PUGs, but I don’t usually play with randoms.
IB is actually stupidly strong when you consider the level of anti wipe he brings through his ability and his general aptitude at staying alive. The only weak part about him is his melee weapon, since all of his melee weapons, much like Sienna, effectively have to be gimped so that Slayer / Unchained doesn’t pick it up and ruin the game with it. Bluntly, IB will always be good for as long as his pistols remain strong.
I don’t think ya’ll understand how much they need to keep Slayer and Unchained in mind when making melee weapons for these classes. No, really, think about it… You give a nice melee weapon to IB and he feels great with it, and then Slayer picks it up, asks “Whats this umgak thing”, and deletes half the game.
IB’s kit and ranged weapons are actually pretty insane, its just his melee game that is holding him back since he does not have the likes of glaives, or spears, or dual axes, or axe and falchion, etc… All his melee weapons are either too slow, or only hit a few targets. The weapons, not the IB class, are just too slow.
1 Like
could buff him by removing the drakefire weapons , thus forcing him to take something useful rather than a pointless stat padder. would make him less annoying to be around!
Drakefire pistols are extremely good at crrating breathing space and thinning out the horde. Without them IB loses large part of his utility, further making slayer the only truely viable and effective choice for dorf player.
yeah im not saying they arent good at stat padding im saying they dont do anything useful outside of that , they only waste resources and kill things that are a non threat and have a ton of other solutions. while preventing him from killing threats .
id much rather see an IB with a rifle/x bow that only gets a dozen kills if they were threatening elites/specials than all the IB drake users that get 100+ kills of fodder slave rats.
the friendly fire and the issue with your tankiest charater backing up with pistols out shotgunning away thats one less person helping one less person blocking the horde. making it easier for them to flank anyone trying to fight then for good measure he blinds the people hes left to carry his weight so they cant see the attack his absence has let through.
I am aware my distaste for all the flame weapons is excessive , but it is also honest.
And I’m saying they are extremely useful and often are a game saver. If thinning out horde and creating breathing space is “waste of resources”, then GJ.
Also you are not in trouble thanks to Dwarf killing horde fast, so when something bigger/badder apeears, you’re not already getting overwhelmed.
IB also can kill threats perfectly well, thanks to 1h axe, but what it lacks in horde clear, is compensated by pistols. Killing DENSE crowd is not stat padding. It’s helping the team effort.
3 Likes
The Monster taunt talent should also increase your dodge range by 20%, so you can kite the boss and dodge grabs easier, while your team shanks it in the back. Knockback/stun immunity would be nice too.
As for the taunt range talent, i think it should also make enemies affected by the taunt take 20% more damage in addition to the 50% taunt range boost. This way your allies can kill hordes or pesky elites that much faster.
As for IB lack of offensive power, give him a talent that whenever he blocks an attack his power is increased by 5% for 6 seconds, stacks up to 3 times. I’d say replace the Miners Rhythm talent if this was added.
1 Like
You don’t need to block a horde when you can delete it with a right click.
1 Like
Well, you don’t need +20% dodge range wheon you have 1h axe it has like 1,250 dodge modifier and 6 dodge count. Well more than enough to kite boss all day long. But I understand the issue - 2h weapons and the shield. Well, rhey are kind of useless, pick is good for CW removal as Slayer if you get +30% chaos/armor (1-shots them on headshot) but that’s it.
1 Like
The best (i. e. the one I think has most merit) argument against Drakefire Pistols (but applying to Drakegun also) is that many players don’t really know when to put them away, venting and kiting backwards all the time. They’re fantastic weapons when used well, with capability against both hordes and priority targets, but if they’re out all the time the IB is likely helping less than they could.
Fire a blast or two to an approaching horde, take care of the rest in melee, then return to the pistols for the next wave. Or poot away against Specials when needed, while still being ready to take care of other things as well.
It all circles back to the overly defensive playstyle IB naturally floats towards.
you dont need to delete a horde with a right click when you can with a left.
After playing IB a little more, here are my thoughts:
- career is extremely resilient, which in theory is a good thing - you can reaooy take a few hits to deliver some of your own. But there’s a problem - IB is really horrible when it comes to temporary HP generation with big part of his arsenal. And that ain’t good.
We have 2 main HP generation talents for every class. Most of the time they work fine - WHC has THP on HS and crit, and he’s the king of HS and crit, so jt works wonder when ult is active even on lords bosses (big advantage) Kruber Merc is the king of cleave, so he gets the cleave one. Zealot and Slayer also have the cleave, which really synergizes well with their attack speed, as a bonus, it grants you THP when hitting the boss. Not a lot, but it can help. Dual axes in theory are very single target-y weapon, yet they work fine with cleave.
What does the IB get? THP on kill and THP on stagger. When it comes to THP on kill, it doesn’t work well since it heavily promotes hunting down the elites and specials. And everyone goes after them. So THP delivery gets extremely random. Player can’t just decide - carefull now, some wide swings to hit those ratties and I’m back in game. Or like in case of WHC - press ult and it’s crit time so you are just trying to deliver maximum number of hits and headshots to quickly fill your depleted bar. IB has to count on luck and THP on kill works the best once the rest of the team is dead.
Now, THP on stagger - this one is kind of good, of course assuming you’re spamming hammer attacks or are carrying a shield (but that’s just handicapping yourself IMO). 1h axe won’t really work. 2h axe - not too good either (it’s generally vastly inferior to 1h axe).
So for axe-wielding IB there’s simply no useful THP talent. Cleave is bad, attack speed is bad, stagger is mediocre-bad, and single target damage is all fun and stuff, but counting on elite kills is not reliable. So here’s my idea - just make it so you’re getting HP depending on dmg dealt, and you’re getting some more THP for hitting armored and superarmored targets, less for infantry and monsters, so it’s not really better than other talents (can be slightly ingerior). But just as reliable.
Huntsman has the same thp generating talents and neither work very well with him. He can shoot all damn day until a horde gets too close and then it’s time to melee but neither stagger or hp on kill grant very much in hordes and he has a ton of weapons that would greatly utilize the cleave talent. Similar problem on bounty hunter, just doens’t have a good thp talent that plays well with his playstyle.
2 Likes