Most likely a myth. There’s no obvious scenario where a wooden shaft can be easily broken except on a bench against an axe. Try chopping wood with a machete, now wood that’s coming at you en masse with murderous intent.
They would also do nil damage against heavy armors. Although they already are pretty bad for legend
Attack cancelling the pistol gives so much DPS, but is so clunky to use. I still wish it was coherent with the BOP, even if it meant giving it limited ammo. Like if you could block and still fire (at BOP range) with the off-hand.
I don’t think the Falchion is still viable against armor for the BH because I couldn’t get less than 3 charged headshots, but BH can deal with armors by using ranged weapons anyway.
It’s a pretty straightforward hack&slash weapon any way you look at it. There’s not giving it a complex pattern.
WHC has good temp health recovery since he’s a great mob killer any way he’s built.
I don’t know of any ranged career that doesn’t have 100hp, except if you consider Unchained a ranged career.
His active also gives decent staying power since it can be used as a panic button, instantly knocking enemies.
I think that the worst part about the WHC is that you have a cooldown for marking enemies and your teammates mostly DON’T BOTHER to mark enemies. It’s excruciating.
That wasn’t me that said that… it was dieaready. Who apparently is completely ignorant of how all this came to be.
I actually agree with you the Falchion nerf was pointless and unneeded. And only made the situation worse. It needs to be reversed.
Now ALL the Saltz weapons are out of whack and all of the progressive nerfs that were made to the other weapons has destroyed the previously good balance between them all.
They just added the Falchion to the pile of screw ups they made. IN a long line of bad decisions that created chain reaction leading to a self fulfilling conclusion.
This is my original post on the subject. It goes through the total clusterfk that happened that lead to the pointless nerf of the Falchion.
And why it and all the things that lead up to it need to be reversed.
EDIT: Basically Fat Shark needs to go back and reverse everything they’ve done since Beta just to get the weapons back on track to the good balance they all had between them before. THEN extend the Reach of the Two Handed Sword so it doesn’t have the same reach as a dinky little short sword (aka the Falchion). And obviously remove the Nerfs on the Falchion as well which just made the situation even worse.
Of course that is a myth! I mean a sword can cut through armor, flesh and bones, but can it deal with one thin stick - of course not.
Like on this video, where wooden stick is completely immune to all the sword hits (full video)
And here you can see how useless swords are at chopping wood:
Again, what else do you expect from a weapon, meant for crushing armor and bones. Of course it stood no chance against this piece of wood.
Just one more video, to show how 1h swords are even more useless at chopping wood:
But those medieval savage people didn’t know how durable the wood is, and even invented langets to protect the shaft from being broken.
And some dumb sword weilders even invented a technique for cutting wooden shafts. So naive.
Btw I realized, that I just wasted 15 minutes of my life, arguing with an argument, that has nothing to do with the original conversation about reach and stuff.
Cuts - yes. But stabs can pierce armor, and there is also this technique called half-swording.
But where did this come from?! I mean we are comparing 1h and 2h swords. Both of them have about the same effectiveness vs armor, which makes this argument also completely pointless.
Ridiculously false. Hollywood level.
Today a modern personal protection against cutting implements is to wear simple chainmail. This against power cutters not simple half-cared for blades.
It’s known that platemail is at least superior to chainmail and mostly immune to cutting. Your own reference shows people trying to hit gaps in the armor during mock duels.
Also false, at least for infantry. Try to chop through a pig’s meat and bone with a sharp cleaver. Easier said than done. Also damages the blade.
This is so bad.
I thought this was about medieval european blades not modern japanese swords.
Spears may have been cheaply made, but not some shitty sapwood branch. At least tool quality wood is needed. Watch this guy trying to chop through the core of a cheap PINE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDpFsDz5l8I. Keep in mind that a tree doesn’t flex, a spear does and thus loses energy.
Chopping WITH the grain is NOT the same as AGAINST the grain. Also pretty common knowledge. Edit: This is actually called Splitting, not cutting.
Let’s hypothesize that the sword DOES break the spear. So what? Weapons did break during combat and people had backups. Now it’s sword against sword, hammer, axe or anything else. It’s like you throw a rock at someone and he takes it smiling and says “you missed”.
I’ve found no book reference supporting a strategy involving a block of infantry chopping a pike formation. Which would make the whole classical era phalanx combat a very stupid thing.
One more. Spear type weapons outlasted swords for infantry by centuries.
Which does not currently exist in V2 and require a completely new moveset. It’s more wrestling than the currently hacking away.
Increased damage to vulnerable parts already exists through finesse modifier such as Kerillian’s 2h-sword. It works against armor.
So you’re saying, that armor can’t be pierced by a sword. Idk why it would be used so wide then… oh, i know, right, because medieval people were savage and dumb.
Though I have a more simple explanation. It seems, that in your head armor has an image of
plated armor or full body chainmailes, but in reality most people could not afford such things and used LEATHER armor. You can read about it here. But even leather armor was quite expensive, so the MAJORITY had to use GAMBESONS. And yes, this thing is also called armor.
How about 2 pigs at once :
Waiting for yet another argument, that this is a modern sword, modern people and modern pigs, thus my video is competely irrelevant.
And I am not even gonna touch
section. Because, well, it’s bad.
Dude, I am sorry, but you are clearly not versed in the medieval topic. I don’t get it why you try to argue so hard. And that’s even half of the problem. Who so pretentious? This makes such a bad impression.
Not in the sense it was being talked about. Anyway. Gambesons, weren’t so “cut through” either. I might be wrong here, but it requires a Very sharp blade to cut through thick well treated leather. As it is still used for this purpose.
The catch is. Very sharp hardened blades shouldn’t then and still should not be used against hard objects as it risks cracking the steel.
Some very good quality steel don’t but most forged steel hammers commonly spall.
Try it yourself. You might be able to give the sword a comeback into the XXI century combat.
Finishing with a personal attack, typical. I don’t really know a lot, but I do research the subject.
You overreacted when I commented your post and started writing a lot of grandiose to be an expert. My arguments in the original post 7h ago were:
That spears didn’t turn obsolete because a dude with a sword came and said “I can chop that” and
That swords weren’t effective against platemail because platemail was made to counteract cutting weapons such as blades.
That’s true, otherwise why use them at all? They required either a very hard hit with a 2-h weapon, or a decent amount of weaker strikes, to cut them into pieces first.
I’ll give the very same argument I gave just above - they wouldn’t be used then. Why use a weapon, that cracks in a typical fight? That is dumb. No, steel is very durable. And medieval steel was as durable as modern. It was much more expensive, it could rust, but it was just as good.
And not only durable, it was made flexible, to prevent cracking. That’s a constant dilemma when making a weapon - it should have both characteristics, else it will be very ineffective. See for yourself here and here.
Is it an accurate built replica using accurate era steel?
Were they used to “hack” plate? I could see an instance where combat using longswords degrades into bashing armor. Swords were and are expensive. As you also said, it is known that swords were both relatively light and balanced around the grip. This makes for a bad bludgeon since a good one would have most weight at the tip.
As you posted, there were techniques for sword equipped men-at-arms to engage each other successfully. It doesn’t seem to be involve bashing the blade against anything. Just knocking the other guy to the ground is much better.
As you said, it was common for people to only have a gambeson or less. As far as I have seen from texts and medieval paintings, most people had pole weapons while some had swords of varied type or maces and blunts. That makes sense, equipment was mostly self-provided.
Thus it seems illogical that a nobleman would dismount from his horse and proceed to bash a steel plate with a sword just for the lulz. They had better weapons for that and better knowledge.
So we come back to the original argument. It doesn’t make sense for a 2h-sword charged attack to be strong against heavy armor, because that’s simple not how blades and steel work.
I wouldn’t doubt that they could produce great steel as they had knowledge of blast forging and pattern welding. I see comments in the sense that it was hard to secure adequate supplies of good iron as easy bog iron started getting scarce and deeper mining commenced.
Trace elements in steel likely varied a lot.
Other classes has better temp recovery too, but did you realize that this temp health recovery is kinda useless since attack you get can one shot you, bypassing all your health white or green.
Also explain reason why BH which is more ranged oriented has more HP than WHC? … developer programing mistake ? or indtended? if inteended then gief reason behind
Imo and this is how it happens in my games, WHC is always on near-full temp health. Never get hit by any power attack since they are easily dodged (CW nerfed), hits come mostly from missing a dodge in front of a horde (dodging into a stray spear stab) and some special/boss dmg, also some ff.
Temp health mitigates most damage.
I do get killed playing with pugs, but I’m the last going down.
BH doesn’t. He has 100 hp. If you think he has more it’s probably due to a necklace.
The rapier on WHC is serviceable (on legend difficulty), but has too many drawbacks compared to other builds that do a lot more.
It works well on trash hordes but is stopped by everything else including a group of shielded chaos marauders. It isn’t the worst vs stormvermin and you can quickly dispatch maulers with your pistol, if they aren’t surrounded by other things that are attacking you, but that’s not exactly unique to the rapier, as other weapons are also quite capable of smashing these two enemy types in to submission. Also got forbid you get staggered mid charge as it really ruins your day.
The horde control is actually quite decent, unless you get a lot of marauders, where you already start hoping for critical headshots. You can hold off more by yourself than most other melee weapons, but hordes are never a problem in VT2 (Note: horde control and not kill speed; sometimes the latter is preferable). Even if they were, some ranged weapons do a much better job at horde clear and from a completely safe distance, whereas the effective range of the rapier is directly under Victors nose (the 100 heath doesn’t really help in that regard).
Mini bosses are just a NO on rapier. The pistol spam can work in theory, but bosses quickly move out of effective range and attempts to make it work can quickly go south when the boss decides to do an instant 180 mid strike which can eat most of your health. The problem here is the unresponsiveness of the pistol which not only makes it hard to maintain the combo but also the delay for block.
Finally shielded stormvermin, CW and map bosses just make you wish you picked another weapon, because there’s nothing you can do against them, often not even run away.
The main reason you want a WHC on your team is the +20% dmg bonus which makes up for your lack of boss dps, and can help your team reach some breakpoints without the need to farm green dust and that’s how I feel most of the time when I play with my group. You do the job that can be delegated to basically anyone else slightly better, but you have huge weaknesses that can not be overcome. The horde clear isn’t worth it and being a pocketsatz for your your team isn’t very fun.
Suggestion on how to improve the rapier:
Fix the gimick gun. Make it easier to operate and make it more responsive. For example shooting while blocking should be possible even if it removes the block. The light attack cancellation should be more fluid and a slight mistime of the combo shouldn’t lock you out of reusing the pistol. This would actually make it a more viable component of the weapon, an not a too unreliable button you press and hope it does what what it’s supposed to do and not just be a huge risk of getting hit.
Give the pistol some sort of shield breaking ability. For example shooting at the head of a shielded chaos marauder (or clan rat) should break the shield and a shielded stormvermin should open up. Just outright breaking a wooden shield, regardless of where it was hit probably wouldn’t feel too strong either.
Notes on WHC:
He’s a bit too squishy for his melee focused playstyle.
The infinite light block just doesn’t really do anything anymore on Legend. Seems like a “training wheels” passive that loses its usefulness once you start to understand the game better, just like battle wizards passive.
His ult does too little for its insanely long cooldown that has a mandatory 30% CDR talent (not like talent options are really a thing in VT2). It consists of two anti synergetic parts: the pushback and the crit chance. Most of the time you’re only using the ability for one of those. If you want to save someone or yourself you’re wasting the crit chance for most of your team. If you need the damage boost, you’re wasting at least 1/5 of the ult for just repositioning yourself so you can actually reach the enemies that just flew away from you. Enemies are also still on the ground for most of the duration, which makes landing headshots for the passive trigger even more difficult.
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